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AFchung
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10-28-2008, 11:51 PM
Post subject: QQ Weird Spot
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($0.84)
BB ($1.11)
UTG ($5)
UTG+1 ($3.49)
MP1 ($2.66)
Hero (MP2) ($2.03)
MP3 ($0.97)
CO ($3)
Button ($3.55)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q , Q
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, 4 folds, BB calls $0.10, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.29) J, 6 , 4 (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.35, BB calls $0.25
Turn: ($0.99) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero????
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I don't understand. You knew nothing about the opponent?
What's his donk/calling range for the flop?
Likely answer is to bet/fold.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Tough to say without a good read. How many flops is this guy seeing? In any case, 2/3 pot bet is good information at this point.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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does anyone else like a check, call?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JKDS
does anyone else like a check, call?
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dont you mean check check?
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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i mean a check turn, call a less than pot sized bet on river assuming the card doesnt change anything (ie, not a Q or a card we dont wanna see).
I think the only hands that call or raise a bet on the turn will be those with a Jack. With info on villain, its possible he has a straight draw here, but without info im ignoring that.
In which case, would it be better to check turn so that we give villain a chance to bluff a weaker pair? Idk, im mixed between this option and giving up completely cuz of the flop bet...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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Thing is, beside the fact that I expect a lot of random action from 2nl players, his donk/call on flop doesnt look too strong. 66-TT are likely, 56s/45s, 57s,A6s,A4s,JT/J9 would be my guess. Given all that I think we can safely b/f the turn and reevaluate the river.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JKDS
does anyone else like a check, call?
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Not really. I think at this point, you need information. Could be an easy take down.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Why are we trying to take it down with the best hand?
What info do you think you're getting by betting here?
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Just playing to improve.
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killerkebab
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 149
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I usually bet .75 here, but for value more than anything.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Why are we trying to take it down with the best hand?
What info do you think you're getting by betting here?
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QQ is only a marginal hand here, so I need to know where I stand. I've only got two outs to improve on the river (and one of them doesn't help if villan has the flush draw), so I'd rather get the pot right now if it's for sale.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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thats the problem though isnt it?
Scenario 1: We bet x
Villain has 3 options
Folds, which he only does with hands we are currently beating and something we dont want
Calls: Something hands we beat and hands that beat us may both do. This includes flush draws, slowplayed jacks, slow overpairs, straight draws etc. This gives us no information and if he bets river we have to fold (although we may be committed depending on the bet x)
Raises: he can do this with hands we beat like strflush draws, a jack, a set, or something crazy and unreasonable that is typical of a 2nl villain. We have to fold here too, although that pot commitment thing is there.
Situation 2: We check
villain now has check or bet
check: all hands we beat, and some slowplayed hands...at 2nl this is likely to mean "i got nothing" though considering the turn check.
bet: because many 2nl villains know about the "i got nothing" sign, many will try to steal the pot on the river with grabage hands, including a pair of 6s, Ts, busted draws, and a whole bunch of other random stuff. Of course, he also does this with hands that crush us. THe thing is though, his bluffing % increased when we checked, and thus we can call a reasonable bet profitably.
This thinking is assuming no info on villain and that the 10 cent donk bet on the flop didnt mean "i have a jack i hope its good".
That is pretty much the jist of my thinking, in that betting will only be bad for us as we lose money if we're beat and lose money if we're not (by not winning more from the river bluffs).
One last thing, i agree that QQ is somewhat marginal in this particular spot, but it is also because of this fact that we dont want to be investing a large amount of money. Id rather save the big pots for situations where its a easier situation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Whos selling it? What hands that we have two outs against is going to fold?
Seriously, stop and think about this for a few seconds.
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Just playing to improve.
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In this situation I want to check and call river. If we bet/fold do we fold river to a donk?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
In this situation I want to check and call river. If we bet/fold do we fold river to a donk?
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Completely opponent dependant.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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killerkebab
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 149
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So the argument here is that if we're beat already we're huge underdogs but there aren't many cards out there which turn a hand which we currently beat into one that beats us?
If I got your thinking right, that would imply a check turn and call river is the best plan I guess.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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its a bit more complex. If we bet, we are only getting called by hands that beat us. Villain having a flush draw is unlikely since he donked then called the flop. Straight draws would only include 53 or 75 which shouldnt be in his calling range preflop (though it is 2nl). So really, the only hands left are 2pr+, KK+ and pairs lower than a J such as TT or something stupid like A6 for a pair of sixes. All the ones that we beat now, will fold to a turn bet (or should) while all those that beat us would call, bet, or raise anyway.
If we accept this as true, then the only way we get more money is if villain bluffs the river.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JKDS
its a bit more complex. If we bet, we are only getting called by hands that beat us.
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Villain is incapable of calling down with 99 here?
Basically, there are probably a lot of lines which are 'right' but they all depend on who the opponent is.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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This seems like a pretty easy check turn behind only call smallish bets on the river vs. an unknown. Probably bet/fold a small amount on a blank river.
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lolpwnt
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 57
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Just check turn ez and call a small river bet. If checked to bet for value.
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Zel
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 60
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I'd opt for Check/Raise, no matter what card comes out, even KA.
I'd give him value to call with the bet, if he decided to check over. If he bets, I'd 3bet, but this might mean a shove coming.
I have a problem laying down pocket pair... so I'm not the best person to give you advice on this hand. I need to read more to learn how to play each pair effectively.
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