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rpm
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01-08-2010, 02:32 AM
Post subject: QQ v seemingly wide 3b range
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
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villain seems pretty aggro. has 3bet 25% of 24 opportunities, his standard open is 5bb (larger than normal) and his 3bets are typically 4x (this is a good size imo, but again, larger than most 25nlers). i felt that, given his image, i could 4b/call QQ pretty comfortably, but is this so? obviously it's likely i have his 3b range beat, but 4b'ing means i am playing for stacks. am i stacking off too light? should i have smoothed the 3b? btw, he is a 21/19 or something so don't let the high 3b% give the wrong impression.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($5.40)
SB ($25.10)
BB ($41.70)
UTG ($36.45)
Hero (MP) ($25.60)
CO ($33)
Preflop: Hero is MP with Q , Q
1 fold, Hero bets $1, 3 folds, BB raises to $4, Hero raises to $14, BB raises to $41.70 (All-In), Hero calls $11.60 (All-In)
Flop: ($51.30) 7 , J, 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Turn: ($51.30) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($51.30) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $51.30 | Rake: $2.55
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Your 4bet size is WAY too large. But meh need more reads. When does he 3bet?
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
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the reason for the 4b sizing was that i thought my hand had positive expectation against his shoving range. by making it 14 instead of 10-12 i wanted to bloat the pot and make him have to shove. dont have many reads other than active 3bettor and larger than average betsizing. fwiw i didnt factor in the effect of him being BB to my estimate of his range.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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flatting and letting him spew into you is probably better, but i'm ok with either of our options. if i'm 4b'ing here, though, the biggest size i'm ever making it is 9. do you really think he's going to set mine getting like 6:1 OOP? be our guest. a smaller raise entices him to play his range incorrectly (by either flatting 'cause he thinks he has implied odds or inducing a shove), whereas your sizing essentially assures that you have 40% equity against his continuing range
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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BooG690
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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This huge four-bet allows him to play his range perfectly. He won't [incorrectly] call with the smaller pocket pairs or any other stupid shit he may call with. You WANT him to make incorrect calls (we gain from this). With this four-bet, he'll only be basically shoving {QQ+,AK}. Also, don't mistake having a wide three-bet range with shoving wide. They are two totally different things and most players at 25NL are really only shoving with the range given above (sure, there's a lot of exceptions).
I agree with Surviva. With villain's wide three-bet range and our position in the hand, why not call and let villain take himself to valuetown? You're not really using position to your advantage here. Additionally, your four-bet is really forcing him to fold all the crap he bluffs with {Axs, Kxs, whatever}. You're narrowing his range tremendously (especially given the size of your four-bet). Call, use position to your advantage, make moneys.
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That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
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DoanDiggy
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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Ugh... QQ is crap on a JTT97 board. The only hands we beat are AK/AQ/AJ/QJ. 77+, KQ, 8x, and Tx are all beating us.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by rpm
the reason for the 4b sizing was that i thought my hand had positive expectation against his shoving range. by making it 14 instead of 10-12 i wanted to bloat the pot and make him have to shove. dont have many reads other than active 3bettor and larger than average betsizing. fwiw i didnt factor in the effect of him being BB to my estimate of his range.
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lol wat. pre just make it 10 or call and get it in post flop if u think his range is wide enough.
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