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QQ on Kxx board. OOP on turn

  
 
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AFchung
Old 12-03-2008, 06:19 AM     Post subject: QQ on Kxx board. OOP on turn #1 (permalink)  
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24/4 over 90 hands

Villain floats extremely light and raises cbets a lot. Will check-raise the cbets when OOP.

Also saw him call down another player's triple barrel with 3rd pair

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flow

MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($6.55)
MP3 ($2.75)
CO ($6.54)
Button ($5.28)
Hero (SB) ($5)
BB ($10)
UTG ($14.60)
UTG+1 ($6.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, BB calls $0.20, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.55) 6, 6, K (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.35, Hero calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.25) J (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.85, Hero folds

Total pot: $1.25 | Rake: $0.05
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metman04
Old 12-04-2008, 03:44 AM #2 (permalink)  

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thats a rough hand maybe u should have bet flop to see where u were at
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:06 AM #3 (permalink)  
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meh it's fine, if he was full of it he wouldn't bet the turn
his only real possible holding is a king since betting something like 99 here is turning a good hand into a bluff
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kb coolman
Old 12-04-2008, 04:10 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I fold here, too. QQ is sooooo easily dominated on this board.
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DoanDiggy
Old 12-04-2008, 07:08 AM #5 (permalink)  
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What about bet/folding (like 1/2 pot) the turn? It's not really turning our hand into a bluff since we get value from a jack, underpairs, and flush draws, who would probably just call.

And just a comment... why is turning 99 into a bluff such a bad thing here? If we can get QQ to fold, surely it's a good play. I make this same exact play with all kinds of underpairs when I sense weakness postflop that might be a pair higher than mine. Hell, I could make this play with Ad5d.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:28 PM #6 (permalink)  
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it's a good play to turn 99 into a bluff as long as he knows that we hold exactly TT or QQ
if we hold Kx that's a losing proposition because we're not just betting the flop, we're also betting the turn

what you have to realize is that late street aggression is more risky since you're betting into an opponent that was strong enough to call or bet previous streets
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-04-2008, 05:39 PM #7 (permalink)  
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the problem with betting the flop to see where you're at is when you're ahead, they fold, when you're behind, they don't and you can't do anything if they wanna try to blow you off QQ.

c/call c/fold is good

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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martindcx1e
Old 12-04-2008, 07:43 PM     Post subject: Re: QQ on Kxx board. OOP on turn #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
the problem with betting the flop to see where you're at is when you're ahead, they fold
except

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFchung
Villain floats extremely light
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-04-2008, 07:44 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
and you can't do anything if they wanna try to blow you off QQ.
gotcha!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-04-2008, 07:45 PM #10 (permalink)  
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though maybe there is merit in betting for value, it cant be betting to see where you're at and you're opening the door to some thin-lines-ville (which isn't bad, just hairy)

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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crazyasian
Old 12-04-2008, 07:50 PM #11 (permalink)  

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good fold, on the balance id reraise the flop, just to verify villain having the king. Question is, how would we be able to grab value from lower pp? If he doesnt have a king, should we opt to slowplay? and how would we know how to do that?
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-04-2008, 08:05 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oketz1979
always bet out on a king board with qq to see where u r
this is just wrong.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-04-2008, 08:12 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oketz1979
also qq is a good hand and it might be good to a second paitr out there, try and find out
still wrong, closer to right, but I'm pretty sure you don't know why you're closer to right.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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martindcx1e
Old 12-05-2008, 12:35 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Seeing where you are at should not be a primary reason to bet/raise. It's a benefit of betting/raising for the right reasons.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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martindcx1e
Old 12-05-2008, 12:43 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
though maybe there is merit in betting for value, it cant be betting to see where you're at and you're opening the door to some thin-lines-ville (which isn't bad, just hairy)
Ya I agree it's pretty hairy. I guess while it's true that this isn't a classic WA/WB situation (the kind where we need to be passive because all worse hands fold), we are still screwed cuz we aren't ever winning the hand if called by worse unless they check the next 2 streets behind. Villain sounds pretty aggro so the chances of this happening are pretty low.

So ya it seems like our options are...
A) Bet the flop and hope to take it down.
B) Bet the flop and hope to see a free showdown after villain calls.
C) Check and hope villain only takes 1 real stab at the pot.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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FriskyPirate
Old 12-05-2008, 01:06 AM #16 (permalink)  
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I'd fold here as well. It's a tough board. Walk away from 60 cents and get the villian when things are more in your favor. If he is bluffing...he will keep going to the well and you will catch him.
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