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abysil
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05-15-2010, 03:52 PM
Post subject: QQ facing paired K on flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Two Pair
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 48
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Criticize my play. Villain is 73/20, so hugely wide range. Although his range includes Kx i figured he was playing so many other hands like Ax Qx and Jx maybe also hands like 78s+ etc. that my play here would be profitable even if he did happen to have the K. No flush or straight draws came, so I kept betting small so he would call all streets.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($2)
Hero (MP) ($2.88)
Button ($1.32)
SB ($2.08)
BB ($1.44)
Preflop: Hero is MP with Q , Q
UTG calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.08, Button calls $0.08, 3 folds
Flop: ($0.21) K, J , K (2 players)
Hero bets $0.14, Button calls $0.14
Turn: ($0.49) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, Button calls $0.20
River: ($0.89) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, Button raises to $0.90 (All-In), Hero calls $0.60
Total pot: $2.69 | Rake: $0.17
Results:
Button had 4, A (one pair, Kings).
Hero had Q, Q (two pair, Kings and Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $2.52
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Fold river unless you think villain is capable of running this line as a bluff. Also in the future don't include the results
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Oh and i can see that you actually won the hand good read on your opponent but most of the time they will have a king or better in this spot.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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define most of the time in a numerical sense, because if it's 75% of the time we should still call
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
define most of the time in a numerical sense, because if it's 75% of the time we should still call
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Well unless you have 1k+ hand on villain it's hard to say exactly how they play on a paired board. If you want me to throw a number out there i would say this is a king at least 90 percent of the time if villain is unknown.
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ljove
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
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Great you won the hand.
Is it correct to post hand with result?
What should we analyze here?
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mrchevyceleb
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Two Pair
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39
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The big note is to not C-bet this flop. The generally good rule is when you have a PP and there's a higher card on the board, i.e. QQ with a King out there or KK with an Ace on the board, do not c-bet. You're over-repping your hand and will often be called by a lot of hands that beat you.
This is why you got so confused on later streets because you had no idea where you stood. So don't cbet the flop, c/c flop, c/c turn and see what happens on the river. But when you play a second pair hand so aggressively you are going to get in trouble a lot. Think about it -- If you have AJ and the flop comes KJ4, are you going to be hammering that hard with your second pair hand?
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EasyPoker
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
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inb4lock
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[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchevyceleb
The big note is to not C-bet this flop. The generally good rule is when you have a PP and there's a higher card on the board, i.e. QQ with a King out there or KK with an Ace on the board, do not c-bet. You're over-repping your hand and will often be called by a lot of hands that beat you.
This is why you got so confused on later streets because you had no idea where you stood. So don't cbet the flop, c/c flop, c/c turn and see what happens on the river. But when you play a second pair hand so aggressively you are going to get in trouble a lot. Think about it -- If you have AJ and the flop comes KJ4, are you going to be hammering that hard with your second pair hand?
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I don't think this is true all the time and you are giving up a lot of equity if you always check under pairs on the flop. Example you JJ and get 1 caller after raising. Flop comes AcTc2d. Depending on how many draws you put in villains range checking is bad Sure you will get called by pretty much any ace but you will also get called basically any flush draw and possible str8 draws.
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mrchevyceleb
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Two Pair
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39
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"Sure you will get called by pretty much any ace but you will also get called basically any flush draw and possible str8 draws."
Yeah definitely, but you'll also not be pot controlling and when you're betting you won't know if you're betting for value or not. So if they have an Ace, you only get value-towned for 2 streets rather than 3 with your second pair and hand-reading on the turn and river is much easier b/c you can see how they react after the flop (in)action. It's a tough spot for sure, and a standard one.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchevyceleb
"Sure you will get called by pretty much any ace but you will also get called basically any flush draw and possible str8 draws."
Yeah definitely, but you'll also not be pot controlling and when you're betting you won't know if you're betting for value or not. So if they have an Ace, you only get value-towned for 2 streets rather than 3 with your second pair and hand-reading on the turn and river is much easier b/c you can see how they react after the flop (in)action. It's a tough spot for sure, and a standard one.
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that depends on the player lots of 2nl folks will call 3 barrels on a paired board with ace high. Sure you lose less when they have a king by checking the turn. Personally i'm not that big on pot control. I like to extract as much money as possible when i am infront of villains calling range. Checking the flop my be lower variance my i'm not sure it's gonna win the most money.
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mbiz
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Orstraya
Posts: 178
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his range is Jx city, snap call
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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He prob has A4o. Ez call.
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Donachello
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: TROLOLOLOLOL
Posts: 849
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Snap it. NH
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[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol
Problem officer...?
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre
Fold river unless you think villain is capable of running this line as a bluff. Also in the future don't include the results
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I would never ever ever ever fold this to a 70/20 70bb deep or watever.
It's rly just a straightforward bet/bet/shove spot not folding anywhere.
Hero should also be sizing bigger to shove river.
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
I would never ever ever ever fold this to a 70/20 70bb deep or watever.
It's rly just a straightforward bet/bet/shove spot not folding anywhere.
Hero should also be sizing bigger to shove river.
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