Originally Posted by jyms

slow early is fine, by the river you basically have no choice. He's either crushing you or folding his AK. When thinking about his range, his betting range is the one you want QQ to play against, not his calling range. Betting to find out if your ahead or behind will never be good.

Originally Posted by PocketJokerz

I think you played this hand bad. By just calling each street, you do not gain much information about your opponent's range. He could have AA or KK, but for all you know he could have JJ or AT.

You should of 3bet pre-flop because even though he's 17/3, QQ is ahead, even if slightly, of his LP raises. If he comes over the top, you should think about calling and set-mining.

Basically, calling was bad because what do you gain from just calling? And when you hit a flop like this, you really do not know where you are in the hand. As played, you basically just have to check back the river. Betting would simply turn your QQ, which does have some showdown value against hands like AT or KT, into a bluff because only a big hand will call you on the river.

Originally Posted by tyrn

So let me get this right. By just calling, hero's not getting enough information on opponents range, so this is why he should 3-bet. Then once hero 3-bets and villain comes over the top, fuck the information we just got, lets set mine without pot or implied odds.

I think I play this the same without any other reads besides 3% PFR

Originally Posted by PocketJokerz

Even if the guy is a 17/3 a LP raise will be wide. Let's say 88+/AQ+ (can be even wider). He'll call 88-JJ and depending on your image, AQ. I personally don't mind that calling range against my QQ in position one bit.

Calling his raise makes you narrow his range or you enjoy playing a guessing game?

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Well Played imo.

Originally Posted by PocketJokerz

My reasoning was that you would still be getting value on the QQ with a raise, albeit from a smaller range, but if you just call, you aren't sure of where you are in the hand and if you aren't sure or you have a sketchy idea, it's harder to make +EV decisions.

Originally Posted by AFchung

Villain is 17/3.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

SB ($70.50)
Hero (BB) ($56.70)
UTG ($52.90)
UTG+1 ($50)
MP1 ($50)
MP2 ($56.15)
MP3 ($55.40)
CO ($30.90)
Button ($45.30)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
7 folds, SB bets $2, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4) 4, 9, 10 (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($10) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $7, Hero calls $7

River: ($24) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $24 | Rake: $1.15

Originally Posted by PocketJokerz

It does make sense, but I had yet to hear the root reasons for certain plays and my concept on getting value has been limited to expanding the pot when you have strong holdings.

But the root reasons seem to be (I may be oversimplifying this):

Strong hands:
-Against multiple players, your equity decreases.
-Against fewer players, but wider ranges, your equity increases. It's quite simple when I think about it. A range gets weaker, equity-wise (balanced ranges are stronger in a different sense; Shania), as they expand. You want to have situations where the equity of your strong, or even marginal, hands increase.

Speculative Hands (Hands in which you want to take advantage of implied odds)
-These hands you want to play against smaller ranges because against wider ranges, you will be less likely to be paid off so the implied odds are low.
-Furthermore, unlike those stronger hands, you want more players in the pot with speculative hands because that increases your immediate odds and implied odds.