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AFchung
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01-04-2009, 07:23 PM
Post subject: QQ 3Bet and Rag Flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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No reads on villain
How was my line here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop
Hero (MP2) ($11.85)
MP3 ($2)
CO ($10)
Button ($10.75)
SB ($4.25)
BB ($2.25)
UTG ($10.45)
UTG+1 ($9.55)
MP1 ($9.90)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q , Q
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, Button raises to $1.40, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.90
Flop: ($3.05) 8 , 6 , 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, Button raises to $4, Hero raises to $10.45 (All-In), Button calls $5.35 (All-In)
Turn: ($21.75) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($21.75) Q (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $21.75 | Rake: $1.05
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Monsieur_chat
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 254
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Personally I fold this. I mean what hands are you beating here which 3bet you PF, raise your c-bet and then get it all in with you?? Possibly Jacks, but I can't see any others? The only hands that make sense for the villain to play like this would be AA or KK which have you absolutely crushed...
That said I suck at poker so you might want to wait for some regs to reply.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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You are not thinking about ranges
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I would call, c/shove turn.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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settecba
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: stealing blinds from UTG
Posts: 326
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Villain´s 3bet range PF could be TT+, AQ+.
After his minraise it could be TT+, AhKh, AhQh (Qh is river card, but by the flop you dont have this info)
It is pretty easy to see you have close to 50% equity against this range. You are beating TT and JJ which is almost half his range. You are beaten by KK+, which is the same portion of his range as TT-JJ. QQ is almost a tie, but this is a tiny part of his range. Against AhKh you have 45% equity and AhQh you have 55% equity. Though this last three parts of the range are not significant.
After Villain minraises flop, he has already put 1/2 his stack in the pot and he will be very likely calling your shove with this range(he is an unknown @ 10NL, assuming he would fold TT-JJ would be giving him too much credit). So pot is 9.05, and you shove 5.35 to win 14.4. That would need 27% equity to be +EV. Since you have close to 50%, you can shove.
However, if you think villain´s range is different, you should adjust this numbers and reevaluate.
Since you dont have any reads, I tried to come up with standard ranges to make the analysis. But this ranges could be off, so there lies the real problem here I think.
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Monsieur_chat
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 254
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lol I'm such a nit.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat
Personally I fold this.
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wat?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat
lol I'm such a nit.
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oh, ok then.
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Monsieur_chat
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 254
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lol. I did say I suck. Less focus on how shit I am, more on AFchung's play imo.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I would call, c/shove turn.
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what about an A/K turn card?
or a heart?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
You are not thinking about ranges
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now that i think about it, it does look like KK/AA. at 10NL people usually dont 3bet with TT or JJ, even on the button
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Monsieur_chat
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 254
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Well that was kind of my thinking but Idk...
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I would call, c/shove turn.
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what about an A/K turn card?
or a heart?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
You are not thinking about ranges
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now that i think about it, it does look like KK/AA. at 10NL people usually dont 3bet with TT or JJ, even on the button |
Still call, c/shove
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
You are not thinking with portals
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DoanDiggy
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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It's perfect play considering that we know the Q is coming on the river. We are crushing villain's range at that point  . (Next time you should delete everything after your last action... even us knowing that villain calls your all-in is more information than we should have.)
Anyways, I agree with gorilla that calling here with QQ is probably the most +EV. If villain has TT-JJ, an A or K is going to slow him down anyways. If an A, K, or heart comes and villain shoves, a fold is probably correct. If we check/shove on a non-heart, non-K turn, (hmm.... what about a J or T? There goes our value...) we are getting our money in much better against AhKh, and JJ-99 is never folding. Plus we get a chance to spike our Q  .
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I would call, c/shove turn.
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Are we playing our entire range that way? We're certainly not playing OESD or flush draw this way, aren't we playing kind of transparently?
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