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chincheck
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08-21-2009, 06:00 PM
Post subject: QJ in SB Multi-way
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 38
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Villain was 29/3/10 over 36 hands. I put him on 66+,T8+, and flush draw. 1) Is my range off? 2) Do I c/f the turn?
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($4.72)
UTG ($2.39)
MP1 ($9.78)
MP2 ($9.54)
CO ($10.61)
Button ($5.65)
Hero (SB) ($4.83)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J , Q
2 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, Button calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.03, BB checks
Flop: ($0.25) 9, 10, 6 (5 players)
Hero bets $0.20, 2 folds, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold
Turn: ($0.65) 6 (2 players)
Hero ?
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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ya your range is waaaay off, he is calling with 78, qj, j8, any diamonds, A10, 910, 69, 10 6, probably k10, q10, and j10 also , maybe even hands like 10 7 and 10 8 that have tp and gutshot type hands
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clvacva
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 200
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I don't like the lead into 4 players with just a draw. Not only that 2 of your outs could bad for you
I would check the turn and call a 20-30ish bet if I know he will pay me off.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
ya your range is waaaay off, he is calling with 78, qj, j8, any diamonds, A10, 910, 69, 10 6, probably k10, q10, and j10 also , maybe even hands like 10 7 and 10 8 that have tp and gutshot type hands
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lol that's not that different from what OP wrote. i think his range is a lot wider than both of you are putting him on. i think he has something a lot of things like KJ a lot, i agree that 77-88 are possible, as well as things like A6, A9, 98, A8 and all sorts of GSSD and A-high and bottom pair combinations like that.
anyway, there's def enough mediocre garbage in there to justify another barrel, especially because we have like 14 clean outs against most his range.
cclava, the flop bet is a semi-bluff. we can either lead out here or check and react based on the action behind (c/r if someone bets and everyone else folds and we have FE, c/c if there's a bet and a few callers or a small bet, and obv take your free card if no one bets). i like leading out here because on this board we're like never gonna get raised (nobody prolly has JJ+ and players are unlikely to raise draws at this level), and you're gonna get a lot of good cards to barrel.
basing whether you bet or not on soley the strength of your made hands isn't the right way to think
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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Donkafelts
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 115
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What is GSSD? I think semi bluff is bad here because there is so little fold equity multi way. Putting money into this pot is -ev unless we like 3 callers, and then it's still probably bad.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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GSSD= Gut-shot straight draw, OESD= Open-ended straight draw, BDFD= Backdoor flush draw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Donkafelts
Putting money into this pot is -ev unless we like 3 callers, and then it's still probably bad.
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are you suggesting we c/f? please don't c/f OESD+overs+BDFD in a 4-way limped pot in a spot where like AT is practically the top of our villain's ranges.
betting here is rarely gonna take the pot down, but like 2/3's of the deck contains turns that are good to barrel (and two barrels will take this pot down most the time) and our hand is going to surpass opponents' ranges slightly more than 50% of the time, and their ranges contain very little that's going to raise our semi-bluffs (because people never raise draws, even combo draws, at the micros), so you're going to either take down the pot or see a river vast percentage of the time
i'll be making a post prolly by the end of the month about planning your hands, and this is an excellent example of where thinking beyond the flop would behoove you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas. |
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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I don't think I'm a fan of semi-bluffing here, the fact that some of our outs will be dirty due to the flush draw being there, I think this would sway my decisions away from betting. This type of board against this many opponents is one where we probably won't get very much FE on, if any at all.
I guess I would check and re-evaluate when facing a bet dependnig on who its from/their position/range etc. and act accordingly (i.e. c/c or c/r, I don't see c/f being a good option unless theres a raise then a re-raise behind us since we'll have decent equity vs everyones range - is this perhaps a reason that makes betting favorable?)
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Donkafelts
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 115
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by surviva316
GSSD= Gut-shot straight draw, OESD= Open-ended straight draw, BDFD= Backdoor flush draw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Donkafelts
Putting money into this pot is -ev unless we like 3 callers, and then it's still probably bad.
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are you suggesting we c/f? please don't c/f OESD+overs+BDFD in a 4-way limped pot in a spot where like AT is practically the top of our villain's ranges.
betting here is rarely gonna take the pot down, but like 2/3's of the deck contains turns that are good to barrel (and two barrels will take this pot down most the time) and our hand is going to surpass opponents' ranges slightly more than 50% of the time, and their ranges contain very little that's going to raise our semi-bluffs (because people never raise draws, even combo draws, at the micros), so you're going to either take down the pot or see a river vast percentage of the time
i'll be making a post prolly by the end of the month about planning your hands, and this is an excellent example of where thinking beyond the flop would behoove you. |
my post came across badly, i meant c/c not c/f we have less equity than opponents who almost defenately aren't folding flop, i would be interested in that post though because i almost never make a bet planning to 2 barrel or anything. (im a fish btw)
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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i don't like leading the flop for 2 reasons.
1 it's hard to get 3 people to fold at micro stakes
2 some of our outs could be dirty due to the flush draw.
If you want to bluff go for a c-raise
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Sam62
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 56
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Maybe I'm too tight? I don't even see a flop with this hand. QJo with 3 calls ahead of small blind. That's just me ...
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sam62
Maybe I'm too tight? I don't even see a flop with this hand. QJo with 3 calls ahead of small blind. That's just me ...
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Depends who is in the hand....if you have only 2 villains who play 50/2/x then QJ is strong compared to their range.
If the villains are loose passive then you may have some nice fold equity to semibluff the flop or barrel the turn..it all depends on the players ahead....folding, many times, will be the right play but not always
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I confess in quicksand
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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lolwut never fold pre
and leading flop is totally fine, i don't think there's anything to do but barrel the turn, like .40-.45, and I would bet any non-diamond river
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