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Robb
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10-18-2008, 12:36 AM
Post subject: Putting Opponent's on Ranges
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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I'm working on my hand reading, so I put together a starting hand strength graphic here:
The JPEG graphics aren't as readable as I would like, so I linked to the Word document here:
http://radar.ngcsu.edu/~rsinn/Ranges.doc
The starting hands are listed vertically according to the scale on the left. Example: you see K8s next the "20" which means there about 20% of starting hands that are stronger while 80% are worse.
I grouped the hands to help aid my memory by "chunking," being able to quickly sift and sort through groups by type rather than individual members. The groups were based on similar strengths and playability. Of course, opinions differ on playability, and I'm pretty TAGG. I couldn't really say if 76o is more or less playable than K3o since I don't ever play either except in crazy situations. So you may argue with some of this.
The key thing you can see is how the top 50 - 60% of hands fit together in terms of "all-in equity" as defined by Poker Stove. Playability is different, so I've moved most of the small pp's much higher in the chart (that's why they're in green - hands in red have been demoted due to lack of playability).
The exercise helped me. Hope it helps some of y'all, too.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I'm glad it helped you.
TBH it gave me a headache. I've seen circuit diagrams that were easier to read.
There is so much information to pack into the 169 possible starting hands, that it's silly to try to break it down. If you could get a 1 page quick glance reference that was memorizable after 30 minutes, you'd be a millionaire.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
TBH it gave me a headache. I've seen circuit diagrams that were easier to read.
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LoL.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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wat
like srsly, when you first posted here I was like mang this dude will be pwning 100nl+ soon. Your good at math, got ability to learn etc etc.
IDK how you can't be beating whatever levels your playing now, this is kinda overkill....... but w/e helps you learn/improve.
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AnTman_69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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ahh brain explosion. Just practice your reads by playing poker.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Hey, muzz, haven't bumped into you in the forums in a while. Hope it's all good.
Main issue that started this chart is that I've been running into a bunch of lagg's lately. I know the top 20% of hands pretty well 'cuz I play 'em. But I've seen a lot more profiles like 60/10, 45/25 and 55/40 lately. Used to be I would see those profiles, but never have more than 40 - 60 HH's against them. Now, I've got some lagg regs. Woo-hoo!! 
Making the chart just helped me remember how bad most of their range really does suck.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AnTman_69
ahh brain explosion. Just practice your reads by playing poker.
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I do. The chart sits by my keyboard. Just helps me be really concrete about my ranges and hand values. In a coupla weeks, I won't need the chart. 
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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A tad off topic but still about ranges.
1) You put villain on a range, say AJ+, suited broadways and pps 99+. regardless of the flop, how do you know where you are when the flop comes out? And with this range, most flops can mean he's landed a piece.
Eg: A flop with 2 suited falls into his range, as does an ace high flop. Even if the board appears blank, but he's betting/calling, then that could mean he has a pp.
And with those drawy looking boards, should a scare card fall, you can end up throwing away a winning hand.
2) When you play MTTs or SNGs, thus limited hands against villains, how do you assign a percentage to the likelihood he has x holdings?
Cheers ta.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thunder
A tad off topic but still about ranges.
1) You put villain on a range, say AJ+, suited broadways and pps 99+. regardless of the flop, how do you know where you are when the flop comes out? And with this range, most flops can mean he's landed a piece.
Eg: A flop with 2 suited falls into his range, as does an ace high flop. Even if the board appears blank, but he's betting/calling, then that could mean he has a pp.
And with those drawy looking boards, should a scare card fall, you can end up throwing away a winning hand.
2) When you play MTTs or SNGs, thus limited hands against villains, how do you assign a percentage to the likelihood he has x holdings?
Cheers ta.
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I guess I don't get your point. Being concrete about possible ranges is better than playing by feel isn't it? Even if he could be holding scary cards?
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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Yeah a bit of misunderstanding. I'll post a new thread so as not to cross over into your thread.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Muzzard
wat
like srsly, when you first posted here I was like mang this dude will be pwning 100nl+ soon. Your good at math, got ability to learn etc etc.
IDK how you can't be beating whatever levels your playing now, this is kinda overkill....... but w/e helps you learn/improve.
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I agree with everything.
I'm a little curious as to why exactly you haven't moved up to higher stakes. I think there are math players and feel players. I suck at math completely (I'm way more of a feel player) and think if I knew half of what you knew math wise I'd be like a 400nl+ player. I would have sworn you'd be at 50nl+ with your math/other skills. That's no insult btw.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
I would have sworn you'd be at 50nl+ with your math/other skills. That's no insult btw.
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None taken. In 6 months, March - August, I played only about 50k hands. I feel like I'm learning, but (until recently) didn't get enough hands in these last 9 months to move up very fast. I've taken shots at 25nl, and I'm about break-even. I'll be up there soon, imo.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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No worries man. You'll definitely be there and dominate. Good "luck".
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OhBollocks
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dublin
Posts: 240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
I would have sworn you'd be at 50nl+ with your math/other skills. That's no insult btw.
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None taken. In 6 months, March - August, I played only about 50k hands. I feel like I'm learning, but (until recently) didn't get enough hands in these last 9 months to move up very fast. I've taken shots at 25nl, and I'm about break-even. I'll be up there soon, imo. |
Pardon me if Im wrong, but arent you already rolled for 25NL? I guess you may be being uber nitty with BRM but you really dont need to. Yours were some of the first posts I read when I joined here some weeks back. At the time I had $200 and was playing $10NL. Now Im currently beating 25NL for 4ptBB/100 over 10k with a roll of $800. And I work full time and have a young family so I dont get in more than 10hrs/week max.
Im just telling you this because I would be confident in saying that I am NOT as good as you are. Your losing money by not moving up. FWIW my first 5k hands at $25NL was a downswing so dont worry that ur breakeven in your shots.
Come join $25NL. You have the ability to pwn it handy.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ISF
Nothing actually changes in a poker game besides equity....
When we can maximize our equity, we will make lots and lots of money.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OhBollocks
Pardon me if Im wrong, but arent you already rolled for 25NL? I guess you may be being uber nitty with BRM but you really dont need to.
Come join $25NL. You have the ability to pwn it handy.
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Thanks...I hope to pwn it soon. I've got a BR ~ $600. I'd like 30 BI or $750 to play 25nl again, with a stop-loss of 40 BI at 10nl.
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Pig_Vomit
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
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Awsome. It's now my background.
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