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Put yourself on a goddamn range

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WeaselT

02-10-2010, 01:25 AM Post subject: Put yourself on a goddamn range

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2009

Location: Winter Park

Posts: 300

WeaselT is an unknown quantity at this point

A lot of the micro stakes players struggle with hand ranges. So do I still. But for this was the first step to starting to understand them better. Start with your own. Much thanks to ISF for this one.
http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....ing-Ranges.php

Start out simple with your own database. Anybody can read a PF chart and play those hands. Some people play hands differently for better or worse. So start at the bottom, figure out what wins for you or what loses. Then write down. What is your best winning hand range? Then you can go deeper look into each hand that wins and figure out why. Then even deeper look at the losers figure out why. For me it was a pretty easy fix as far as eliminating positional leaks in my PF hand range, but then you can go even farther.

So I started with sticking to my biggest winners and what positions they played best from. Work on it make sure its solid. Then slowly start experimenting with adding in more or taking some out. But super slowly, like one position at a time, one hand at a time. Then you can go back after a few thousand (or more even would be better) and see if it works or if you could play it differently or not at all. Keep track of it all somewhere in a notebook or somewhere. But at some point you will end up with a pretty winning hand range no matter what your stake from your own style and experience.

So once you manage that you take it even farther. I am still pretty bad at puttin together hand ranges for other players. But I feel like its getting better. I can see players with similar stats to my own and feel like I can deduce thier holdings much better. Are they looser or tighter than you? Positionally aware? You will start to have a better understanding of your range compared to theirs.

I dunno, I just feel like im starting to get the hang of this hand range thing. For me it started with myself and putting a lot of thought into what I was doing. Seems like the better you know what you are doing the better you will know what others are doing. Obviously nobody plays the same, but for me it was a jumping off point to UNDERSTANDING ranges. Accurately putting people on ranges is still pretty hard for me at least. But it was what started me like REALLY thinking about them and understanding them better.

Whatever it helped me maybe it helps you. Give it a shot couldn't hurt right?

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Monty3038

02-10-2010, 04:25 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Ohio

Posts: 788

Weasel, I think you have a good point. Having a starting range when you are just beginning is a good point, also using that range to compare against for villian is a good starting point. If you can't justify raising a set of cards, how could the villian? I think this is a valid point many of us miss in the beginning... to expand on it a bit though... once you have an initial range for the villian, even if it is as simple as your own range that you start with, consider villians actions in regards to the cards that come, the way things come, to help narrow it...

One question that was prompted to me by Code Red was "How could he continue without x in his hand?" or to put it another way "What cards in villians range would make him react like that, or lead out that way?"

I struggle with ranges too, but I think I'm starting to get a bit of it... now applying it effectively... well, that might be ranges, stage 2.

Erpel

02-10-2010, 09:54 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 605

It's not a bad idea at all to use yourself as a baseline. Two reasons.

As you (hopefully) move up your opponents will be better and make less stupid mistakes - this should mean that they end up playing closer to your style. What you learn now, if it's grounded in thinking about people playing solid poker, will apply much more as you move up.

Second point is - if your analysis at a decision point is based on the opponent being solid it is possible to mathematically account for idiocy. Like, this guy is an idiot 10% of the time and then just tweak your decision a bit one way or another.

lolzzz_321

02-11-2010, 12:07 AM

#4 (permalink)

NO YOU

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: My ice is polarized

Posts: 2,797

http://pokerranges.com/

Constructs ranges that others can visualize, ala pokerhand or our hand history converter.

Here is an example:

100,000 iterations from free Poker Odds-Calculator at PokerRanges.com:

Hero's hand: 5 3
Range: AK, TT+

Overall Odds:
Win: 26.8%
Tie: 0.5%
Lose: 72.7%

Detailed odds:
TT: win 20.29% tie 0.56% lose 79.15%
JJ: win 20.68% tie 0.51% lose 78.81%
QQ: win 20.63% tie 0.45% lose 78.92%
KK: win 20.69% tie 0.47% lose 78.83%
AA: win 19.32% tie 0.49% lose 80.19%
AdKc: win 40.38% tie 0.44% lose 59.18%
AhKc: win 39.00% tie 0.54% lose 60.46%
AsKc: win 40.24% tie 0.44% lose 59.32%
AcKd: win 40.45% tie 0.47% lose 59.08%
AhKd: win 38.77% tie 0.64% lose 60.59%
AsKd: win 40.56% tie 0.40% lose 59.04%
AcKh: win 38.76% tie 0.52% lose 60.72%
AdKh: win 38.98% tie 0.51% lose 60.51%
AsKh: win 39.19% tie 0.48% lose 60.33%
AcKs: win 40.40% tie 0.51% lose 59.09%
AdKs: win 39.94% tie 0.54% lose 59.52%
AhKs: win 39.01% tie 0.56% lose 60.43%
AKs: win 37.14% tie 0.56% lose 62.30%

Maybe you can post these and let spoonitnow yell at you

spoonitnow

02-11-2010, 12:11 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

For what it's worth, that site uses a limited number of iterations to determine equities so it's off a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

lolzzz_321

02-11-2010, 12:48 AM

#6 (permalink)

NO YOU

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: My ice is polarized

Posts: 2,797

Yee, off by 2 or 3 percents. I can only hope the pokerrange gods fix this.

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