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martindcx1e
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03-04-2005, 06:41 PM
Post subject: Pump It or Dump It?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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hey everyone. i was wondering what you guys thought of the "pump it or dump it" strategy when you are first to enter a pot. chris ferguson wrote an article about it on his website. i know that contributes to an aggressive table image but there are times when i'm first to enter a pot in pretty early position and i have a hand like suited connectors or a small pair and i'm much more comfortable just calling and seeing what happens from there. i mean i don't want to raise with 67s or 22 and then face a big re-raise. but i don't want to eliminate these hands from my starting hand requirements when i'm first to enter the pot either.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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A lot of people advocate the all-raise all-the-time strategy, and push aggressive play as the only way to be. I do think you should raise a lot pre-flop if you're going to play, and no one has raised ahead of you, but you need to mix in some limping for certain hands. A lot of hands like baby pairs and suited connectors, it doesn't really matter how many people play or if you are in the driver's seat... you are just looking to hit that monster and win a lot of money. I do still raise with these hands at times, because in truth you will not hit that often, and it's good to steal some pots just by taking the lead with the betting. But most often, when I play these types of hands it's for as little money as possible, with lots of other players in the hand. Doesn't bother me at all. I also will sometimes limp or min-raise with strong hands, if I have position and very few people are playing. For example with AK or AQ on the button, and everyone before me having folded, I might just min-raise to try to encourage the blinds to stay in; I might even limp there at times. But then you have to be more careful post-flop.
One thing that's important to me is mixing up my play so as not to be too transparent. That's why I like to raise sometimes with small pairs or connectors, and also limp sometimes with premium hands (if my position and the action dictate). Make 'em nervous.
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Crunch
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Saint John
Posts: 82
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I believe that it is dependant on the game you're in (NL or limit), and the relative skill of the players involved. With low level limit, raising has little 'intimidation value' as is mainly for fattening the pot. Everyone and their dog will limp marginal hands and alot of garbage just to see a flop. Raising good hands makes them pay twice as much, but with marginals such as small pair and suited connected you dont want to spend any more money than neccesary as they rarely hit and are generally useless hands if you dont get some kind of draw, trips or two pair.
In NL where raising can be quite substantial, it's totally different. If you play a solid game, raising the good hands and limping the marginal ones, it becomes really easy to put you on a hand. You limped, so you must have a pair of babies or connectors/1-gappers. If you come out banging on the flop, you're just advertising that you hit your hand hard. It makes you very readable.
If you are going to limp with the marginals, you must throw in a few monster limps as well, even better if you can show it down and win to throw off the image that you just limp garbage and keep everyone guessing. Much more important as the fish factor comes down in the higher limits. Micro NL just aren't watching you that closely and probably dont care what you limp with.
One other consideration in either game is if your limp gets raised, is it good enough to put in another BB in Limit? Even 3 more BBs in NL? When limpers are up against pump-and-dumpers, you have to be prepared in advance to decide if you're going to see a flop even if it's raised, or else you're just going to keep tossing out your limps when you decide to fold.
If it's good enough to call with, it's good enough to bet with.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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at first, i read this site, and thought be aggressive aggressive aggressive. then i toned it down. i limp with pockets up to JJ, i limp suited connectors. Every once in a while i'll raise with them for kicks if i feel its a good time to steal a pot or whatever possesses me to do it, but for the most part i limp them.
nobody cares what i limp with. even someone who pays attention, i rely on the fact that if they won't believe me. AA on a rag/rag/rag board looks good every time. good enough for me to sucker them out of at least enough to make it profitable, if not a push.
*edit: and that's not to say that being aggressive all the time is a bad strategy. but it doesn't work for me, not for my style and not with the players at my stakes. i'm a winning player, and i don't think that changing that part of my game will improve my profit. to each their own.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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as i was writing that, i limped 10Js, flop came 810J, i bet the pot, got a call. turn came K. i bet 2/3 the pot, got raised 3x, i pushed and he called, he had AK. Made 3/4th's of a buy-in just like that.
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poskid_1982
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 392
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I only advocate the AGGRESSIVE style in SNG's and definately not on the rings. Reason is that so many people try to trap you or will run you to the river anyway. You can play aggressive on the rings but remember to play with caution. I bluff WAY too much for my own good but am having the time of my life. I dont believe in pump it or dump it either sometimes I call a couple times either to set a trap for later or to help calm my table image. Depends on your personal style. I personally raise 50-75% of the flops I play depending on the table and situation.
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Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.
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Hubris1
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 163
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Like most things in poker its situational. Take a ten dollar tourney, UTG you get AA, first level. I'd raise the hell out of it. If it was a real loose table I might push right there.
Now, take the same tourney, eight levels later. You get AA UTG, you might min raise, you might 3x, hell I'd probably just call and hope a short stack after me would push to juice the pot, get a couple of callers then I'd come in over the top.
Take same situation, put you in BB. At first level if you don't raise on BB with AA you're a damned idiot. Whereas at eighth level you might just call a steal and get it heads up, then check and then go back over the top at the obligatory flop bet.
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