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wufwugy
Old 12-29-2007, 07:45 PM     Post subject: PT one pair hands #1 (permalink)  
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 Go to miscellaneous stats. One pair hands should be in the green right? Where should they be relative to other hand types?
 
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daven
Old 12-29-2007, 10:47 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 nope. Red. I think (correct me if i'm wrong) that PT combines your starting cards with the board, regardless of whether you see the flop, fold pre, fold river etc. You'll probably see about half of your hands as "1 pr", so half of those blinds you fold, a big chunk of those pre-flop raises that you fold to the flop, etc are losing you money under the "1pr" label. And if you are playing pairs on the flop then a lot of the time your pair improves by the time the river comes.

If I sort by winnings, the hand rankings are:
1) Three of a kind
2) Full House
3) Straight
4) Flush
5) Quads
6) Royal flush
7) Straight flush
8) Two pair
9) High card
10) 1 pair

straight flush and down are all losing (both straight flush hands I folded pre-flop)

edit: check the % of Total Hands field + I think this only includes hands where a flop occurred (not sure about this tho)
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 12-29-2007, 11:19 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 one pair should be red unless you are incredible
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Chopper
Old 12-30-2007, 02:31 AM #4 (permalink)  
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interesting. mine run...3 of a kind, boats, straights, flushes, str8flush, quad, two pair, pair, high card. something like that.

care to explain, though, what this should be telling me?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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wufwugy
Old 12-30-2007, 06:15 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 I didn't notice that PT accounts for hands 'made' after you fold. Which is fucking retarded. I do think that 1p should be green if it's only hands you actually make, but I still do not know.
 
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Robb
Old 12-30-2007, 12:39 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I didn't notice that PT accounts for hands 'made' after you fold. Which is fucking retarded. I do think that 1p should be green if it's only hands you actually make, but I still do not know.
There is a check box in top right, in the bar above this window, for "show only hands that were not folded."

My database filters to 1.8k of 44k hands, with top earning hands being sets, boats, two pair, flush, straight, one pair. My one pair is green, but just barely. But I was filtered to look only at NL10. Probably different at higher levels where Iowa hangs out.
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Robb
Old 12-30-2007, 01:11 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
one pair should be red unless you are incredible
UNLESS...
1. You've been lucky
2. You're playing at donkstakes (like me )
3. You're database is small

At NL10, I think it's possible to run slightly positive with one pair only because people stack off with air so often.
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Chopper
Old 12-30-2007, 02:41 PM #8 (permalink)  
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still confused as to what this all indicates. i mean, we all know that sets should win you more hands/money than one pair hands. i dont see the fuss.

unless, someone cares to explain the significance.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Robb
Old 12-30-2007, 04:41 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
still confused as to what this all indicates. i mean, we all know that sets should win you more hands/money than one pair hands. i dont see the fuss.

unless, someone cares to explain the significance.
I use it (infrequently) for the following purposes.

1. It helps you understand where the profits in your game come from. For example, the vast majority of profits come from sets - they're the easiest to make on the flop. The second most come from full houses which often happen when you flop a set and the board pairs on the turn or river. So...pp's are the most profitable hand types. Big draws to straights and flushes also pay well, but they hit less often. We can sort based on how the hand finished and watch hand replays, see how these hands go against various villains from various positions.

2. As a newbie, I often worried about betting sets when the board flushed or straightened. As it happens, sets hold up about 80% of the time while straights hold up only about 75%. So we should be betting them, even when other big hands seem to be out there.

3. Should we bet the idiot end of a straight? Maybe, in certain situations, it's a good idea. Straights are big hands and are hard to hit, so if the board has only 3 cards in a given straight range, and you've made it, you should probably bet it and take the chance the villain does NOT have the higher straight.

4. Flushes hold up really well, when you make them (87%). As a newbie, I often worried about flush under flush when I had 65s and hit my hand. Now, I'm betting them regardless of reads. If I get stacked, so be it.

5. Oddly, full houses hold up less well than flushes and only slightly better than sets, obviously because of simplicity of holding big unpaired cards and hitting trips as someone hits their boat (holding small pp that flopped a set). Then...the other card pairs the board, and you've got the higher full house. These situations are fairly easy to avoid, since uncoordinated boards don't leave villains with lots of ways to out-boat us, but with pocket 3's I am worried about a A Q 3 flop with a Q on the turn. Two other full houses are possible (plus the quad Q's - ouch), and I can be drawing dead or to the case 3 if I'm not careful, here.

These are just some general observations about NLH based on what I'm seeing from my database. The above points confirm what Phil Gordon says in one of his books: "The average winning hand in Holdem is 2 pair." I use that rule of thumb to guide turn/river betting. If you don't have something that can beat TPTK, why are you still betting the turn? Sure, there are valid reasons to bet/call/rr the turn and river with less than 2 pair. Total donkfish villains excepted, expecting to win without improving should not be one of them.
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Chopper
Old 12-30-2007, 09:50 PM #10 (permalink)  
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thank you, and interesting. point 4 struck me right in the mouth. although, recently, i've taken a much more aggro line, too.

i still think most all of what PT is telling you here, though, "depends." if i have the sucker-end, for example, and i bet out and get pushed over? i dont know if i call as a default. obv, depends on if its a 3 str8 or 4 str8, among other factors.

still interesting. thanks for the details.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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wufwugy
Old 12-31-2007, 06:58 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I didn't notice that PT accounts for hands 'made' after you fold. Which is fucking retarded. I do think that 1p should be green if it's only hands you actually make, but I still do not know.
There is a check box in top right, in the bar above this window, for "show only hands that were not folded."

My database filters to 1.8k of 44k hands, with top earning hands being sets, boats, two pair, flush, straight, one pair. My one pair is green, but just barely. But I was filtered to look only at NL10. Probably different at higher levels where Iowa hangs out.
This does have its purpose, but it's still not what I want. There's more hands than just hands that saw showdown and hands that were 'made' after folding.
 
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wufwugy
Old 12-31-2007, 07:06 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 Actually, I believe it to be likely that once the box is checked then 1p hands should win more than anything else. The biggest winners are AA KK QQ AK stuff. I have one 50k hand database (where I ran below expectation, yet played better than other stretches) where this is the case. However, I have another 50k database where I played worse/ran better and made more from sets than 1p hands. I think it boils down to play, though.
 
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Galapogos
Old 12-31-2007, 10:59 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
one pair should be red unless you are incredible
I am incredible, but alas, my one pair hands are also in the red.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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