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Proof that TAG doesn't mean good (for wonderland)

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04-10-2009, 02:43 PM Post subject: Proof that TAG doesn't mean good (for wonderland)

#1 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Villain is 20/20/2.5 TAG
I guess he thought I was bluffing

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($50.75)
UTG ($88.40)
MP ($46.25)
Button ($54.15)
SB ($74.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, A

3 folds, SB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, SB calls $3

Flop: ($9) 10

, 4

, K

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB calls $5

Turn: ($19) K

(2 players)
SB bets $10.50, Hero calls $10.50

River: ($40) 10

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $30.75 (All-In), SB calls $30.75

Total pot: $101.50 | Rake: $2

Results:
SB mucked A

, J

(two pair, Kings and tens).
Hero had K

, A

(full house, Kings over tens).
Outcome: Hero won $99.50

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nickthefool

04-10-2009, 04:00 PM Post subject: Re: Proof that TAG doesn't mean good (for wonderland)

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: here

Posts: 338

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I guess he thought I was bluffing

Nah, if board has 2 pairs, A high = teh nuts. He was trapping on river ;p

The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !

04-10-2009, 04:27 PM Post subject: Re: Proof that TAG doesn't mean good (for wonderland)

#3 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickthefool

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I guess he thought I was bluffing

Nah, if board has 2 pairs, A high = teh nuts. He was trapping on river ;p

o rite I guess he put me on 99-

Outlaw

04-10-2009, 04:34 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 1,033

I like the way you played this.

A pretty ridiculous hero call by him. If he was going to call a river shove, he should have shoved the turn with his nice draw.

tyrn

04-10-2009, 06:21 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 189

This guy is bad. Half hearted semi bluff on turn, doesn't carry through on river, yet still decides to call your bet. Durrrrrr

AFchung

04-10-2009, 06:28 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrn

This guy is bad. Half hearted semi bluff on turn, doesn't carry through on river, yet still decides to call your bet. Durrrrrr

durrrr is my hero

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

okiman

04-11-2009, 03:53 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 171

He obviously put you on AQ. Why let you have the pot when it only costs $30 to get his $8 share?

Wow! Good to know there are players this bad at $50NL.

RoyalProdigy

04-11-2009, 04:20 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Massachusetts

Posts: 178

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Stack That Arab Money!!!

04-11-2009, 06:43 PM

#9 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Why? People are always this stupid at NL50
it seems every hour I get donated a stack by TPNK or JJ on Kxx board
but then I somehow end up less than a buyin up so I guess I'm a pretty shitty player and just rely on people donating moneys

RoyalProdigy

04-11-2009, 07:32 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Massachusetts

Posts: 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

lol well if everyone is donating at 50nl then i need a bigger br to move up stakes. I'd say gl but it doesnt take luck to accept donations

Stack That Arab Money!!!

04-11-2009, 11:01 PM

#11 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

lol well if everyone is donating at 50nl then i need a bigger br to move up stakes. I'd say gl but it doesnt take luck to accept donations

No, but it takes luck to hold! I'll accept your gl

Parasurama

04-12-2009, 02:18 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: DMT

Posts: 820

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

04-12-2009, 02:28 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

I meant both "TAG preflop stats" and his 2.5 post-flop aggression because wonderland posted a screenshot of him running a HUD at NL2 and complaining about how many people had good-looking statistics

Parasurama

04-12-2009, 02:32 AM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: DMT

Posts: 820

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

I meant both "TAG preflop stats" and his 2.5 post-flop aggression because wonderland posted a screenshot of him running a HUD at NL2 and complaining about how many people had good-looking statistics

ahh yeah I thought 3-4 was more standard for a TAG?

bigspenda73

04-12-2009, 02:33 AM

#15 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

he made a hero call, he was wrong

you're only shoving a King, it's somewhat likely you would have raised the turn with one, you never do this with a flush or ten, so yea, whatever.

tyrn

04-12-2009, 02:49 AM

#16 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

he made a hero call, he was wrong

you're only shoving a King, it's somewhat likely you would have raised the turn with one, you never do this with a flush or ten, so yea, whatever.

Good reasoning behind ruling out flush and ten, I never thought of it like that. I'm not sure I follow the logic about why our hero didn't have a king though. What was he hoping to get value from by betting the turn and hitting flush on river if hero didn't have the king?

AnTman_69

04-12-2009, 03:16 AM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: Brisbane, Australia

Posts: 463

ive made hero calls like this before

, but i'm sure most here will too ..sometime in their career.

Micro2Macro

04-12-2009, 03:22 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Posts: 4,463

Whether this hand was played okay by villain based on his perceived range of hero doesn't matter.

Tight and aggressive does not mean good, and we don't need to try and prove it. All you gotta do is get on a poker table and observe.

To Wonderland: you'll begin to realize just how sickly horrid some tight players really are once you've played enough hands against them.

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

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04-12-2009, 04:13 AM

#19 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

I meant both "TAG preflop stats" and his 2.5 post-flop aggression because wonderland posted a screenshot of him running a HUD at NL2 and complaining about how many people had good-looking statistics

ahh yeah I thought 3-4 was more standard for a TAG?

I have 2.56, I take c/c lines a lot to keep my opponent's range wide

the reason it doesn't make sense to hero call is that while my flop bet range is wide, my range to continue on the turn is not

since he has the ace of clubs, it means I probably either have a king, a ten, a queen or jack of clubs or a set of fours/tens or quads

if I have a queen or a jack of clubs I will usually have a flush OR a ten OR I have one club with AJ/AQ/QJ
if you say he rules out any boat other than a king or a flush, that leaves me with:

quads (2 combos)
AK (6)
KQ (8)
AJc (3)
AQc (3)
QcJ (3)
QJc (4)

hands that beat us:
2 + 6 + 8 = 16 combos
hands that tie:
3 + 3 = 6 combos
hands that lose:
3 + 4 = 7 combos

he's calling 30.75 to win 101.5
so he needs 30.2% equity
If I ever give up on the river when I call the turn with QJ he's pretty much fucked on equity
if I always shove whatever I continued on the turn with he has 29.6% equity and if I check back aces without turning them into bluffs he has 23.8% equity

jjbish

04-14-2009, 03:04 PM

#20 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Why? People are always this stupid at NL50
it seems every hour I get donated a stack by TPNK or JJ on Kxx board
but then I somehow end up less than a buyin up so I guess I'm a pretty shitty player and just rely on people donating moneys

Nah.
You may be like me.
Board runs out AK3J3 and you cant believe he has and stayed with the J3 to beat your AK. (true storyz)

NH, WP, GG, TY, Etc..........................

surviva316

04-14-2009, 06:28 PM

#21 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,625

surviva316 will become famous soon enough

i agree with the premise of the post but have to say that this exact scenario was definitely the exception and not the rule. I run 2.5 AF, and there isn't a single hand that i run this line with on this board. i certainly don't expect TAgg's to always be good or use their aggression in the right spots or pick the right PF hands to go with, but i'm definitely not expecting them to just call this all the way through

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

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Proof that TAG doesn't mean good (for wonderland)

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