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Progression of a Poker Noob.

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Roger

04-01-2005, 05:05 AM Post subject: Progression of a Poker Noob.

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 40

Okay I'm pretty new(3-6months) at playing poker and over that past few months i have played online, and a few weekly live game.

I think I gone through some progressions.

Initially I Played my Cards.

I'd look at my cards, and see the board, and say hey I have 2 pair, I need to bet big, bot considering the str8 possibilities, or what my opponent may hold. I played alot of flops, and would draw out for flushes and str8's.

Now a few weeks ago I had some sort of poker moment, I'm looking at my outs, counting pot odds, (not always applying..), and looking at my opponents betting patterns, to help me put a finger on what they are holding.

I bet harder when I thinnk I have the best hand, and make the fish pay to catch their cards. I'm not completely their yet, but i feel i'm getting there.

I think my next progression will be understanding position. It just doesn't play a part in my thought process yet. I'm working on being better, but really i'm not good.

With that in mind, in keeping in mind that I still really suck at poker. What do you think is the Progression of a Poker Player? (And what can I do to get better?)

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dsaxton

04-01-2005, 05:20 AM

#2 (permalink)

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The progression is usually as follows: bad, ok, good.

Sykedupp

04-01-2005, 06:29 AM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Posts: 550

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

The progression is usually as follows: bad, ok, good.

That Helps. :P

Roger, I think you're approaching it the right way. Instead of playing just your cards, you're playing the players, which is good. Once you get good at that, learning position will be pretty easy, and you will probably get the hang of it easily... I dont play position amazingly well, but thats because I havent worked fully on it yet... But I've won alot of hands with pure aggresion from the button, dont matter what my cards are... ill raise, get 2 callers, bet 2/3 pot on flop, get one caller, bet pot on turn and he folds, boom, decent sized pot... you can get so many more chips if you play position properly... learn it quick, learn it well!

-Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by soupie

That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.

Rondavu

04-01-2005, 02:43 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Position = Information

You are admittedly just beginning to read people. As you get better at putting people on cards, you'll understand the true value of position. When your in a tournament, and the blinds are 1,000/2,000 it magnifies positional advantage. Not only can you steal preflop with marginal cards, but you can fish out weakness postflop and splatter scare chips all over that weakness.

Position gives you an option to utilize the delayed bluff steal as well. Someone bets out a draw on the flop ahead of you, you call his bet with next to nothing. When a blank turns, he checks to you or bets the same amount indicating weakness, and you go over the top of him. You can't do that without position. I use it all the time against timid limpers.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

dsaxton

04-01-2005, 06:42 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Someone bets out a draw on the flop ahead of you, you call his bet with next to nothing. When a blank turns, he checks to you or bets the same amount indicating weakness, and you go over the top of him.

If you're confident he's on a draw, is there any reason you aren't raising on the flop? What happens when it isn't a "blank" that falls?

aleksandr

04-02-2005, 07:59 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 305

Start considering how the number of other players in the hand affect your ability to play particular hands. Position will come from there.

For instance, if you are on the small blind and it has folded to you, K9o is a very playable hand. In mid position facing at least one limper, K9o is very weak, and facing a raise it's pretty much unplayable.

Operation Learn to Read
Reads: 7 posted
Money: $31
SNGs: 0
MTTs: 0

SmackinYaUp

04-03-2005, 10:26 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

If you're confident he's on a draw, is there any reason you aren't raising on the flop? What happens when it isn't a "blank" that falls?

Because a call represents more strength than suddenly jumping allin on the flop when they have a small piece of the board but are still scared

Roger

04-03-2005, 11:16 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 40

Okay guys I tried playing the button. Everyone limped into me, and I raised, wayy to many called. But it worked out, as it checked back around to me at the flop.

Worked well for me.... Is this a proper way to play position?

Ella is at seat 1 with $6.40
TimDogg is at seat 2 with $7.19
chris175 is at seat 3 with $31.26
BJSJ is at seat 4 with $34.74
Roger is at seat 5 with $13.90
wevo18 is at seat 6 with $3.75
London Ace is at seat 7 with $7.45
kugutsuman is at seat 8 with $8.75
Krackerfsu is at seat 9 with $4.45
trifilara is at seat 10 with $6.07

London Ace posts the large blind $0.10
wevo18 posts the small blind $0.05

wevo18: --, --
London Ace: --, --
kugutsuman: --, --
trifilara: --, --
Ella: --, --
TimDogg: --, --
chris175: --, --
BJSJ: --, --
Roger: 6d, 3s

Pre-flop:

kugutsuman: Call $0.10
trifilara: Call $0.10
Ella: Call $0.10
TimDogg: Call $0.10
chris175: Call $0.10
BJSJ: Fold
Roger: Raise $0.70
wevo18: Call $0.70
London Ace: Call $0.70
kugutsuman: Call $0.70
trifilara: Call $0.70
Ella: Call $0.70
TimDogg: Fold
chris175: Call $0.70

Flop (Board: 3h, 2h, 4h):

wevo18: Check
London Ace: Check
kugutsuman: Check
trifilara: Check
Ella: Check
chris175: Check
Roger: Bet $3.00
wevo18: Fold
London Ace: Fold
kugutsuman: Fold
trifilara: Fold
Ella: Fold
chris175: Fold

Roger wins the pot of $4.75 by default

evman150

04-03-2005, 11:23 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Location: Victoria BC

Posts: 269

That's the idea, but even on the top of the hill you don't want to be fighting the battle with water pistols.

Roger

04-03-2005, 11:52 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 40

I thought the whole point of playing postion was playing ur opponents, and not the cards?

dsaxton

04-04-2005, 12:36 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

If you're confident he's on a draw, is there any reason you aren't raising on the flop? What happens when it isn't a "blank" that falls?

Because a call represents more strength than suddenly jumping allin on the flop when they have a small piece of the board but are still scared

A call is a stronger play than a raise? Um, no.

What are you even talking about here? Did you read the original post that I was responding to?

Rondavu

04-04-2005, 03:04 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

If you're confident he's on a draw, is there any reason you aren't raising on the flop? What happens when it isn't a "blank" that falls?

Because a call represents more strength than suddenly jumping allin on the flop when they have a small piece of the board but are still scared

A call is a stronger play than a raise? Um, no.

What are you even talking about here? Did you read the original post that I was responding to?

A call can be percieved as stronger than a raise in certain situations. A raise can be seen as a steal attempt, whereas a call is not a steal attempt. At least not yet anyway. A call to an opponent can mean you hit the flop or even worse popped a monster, and intend on draining them for all they're worth. This is what makes the delayed bluff steal so powerful. It appears stronger than a straight bluff steal. That's because of the flop smooth call. If they're truly weak and you sense it they will back off when you raise them hard on the turn.

In some instances, a call is stronger than a raise, though I understand where your coming from.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

04-04-2005, 04:30 PM

#13 (permalink)

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poskid_1982

04-11-2005, 12:07 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Midwest

Posts: 392

Gotta love Ryppy's bluntness.

Anyway I dont think the play you mention is necessarily horrible. Just not good. The problem is that when you make this play at the level your at and with as many limpers as you have...you are likely staring at 2-4 callers with only weak outs.

When you play position you have to remember to anticipate what you will do if your opponent surprises you. Lets say you get called here...Or worse raised. Can you lay down the hand? I would hope so. If you get called you want to have outs that can hit and make your hand strong enough to win. A flush board is not a place to do this.

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

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