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Probably obvious but just making sure

  
 
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Revolver123
Old 01-30-2009, 03:56 AM     Post subject: Probably obvious but just making sure #1 (permalink)  
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Not sure why he would all in like this maybe I have bluffing syndrome going on...

PokerStars Game #24416989931: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/01/29 23:53:51 ET
Table 'Carlova' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: lesnos ($6.47 in chips)
Seat 2: Miikey722 ($11.83 in chips)
Seat 3: JACQUEV1 ($2 in chips)
Seat 4: Danutseye ($3.30 in chips)
Seat 5: mrtguy ($6.65 in chips)
Seat 6: benandchels ($5.53 in chips)
Seat 7: Maxx98 ($9.12 in chips)
Seat 8: me52 ($10.33 in chips)
Miikey722: posts small blind $0.02
JACQUEV1: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Miikey722 [Ts Th]
Danutseye: calls $0.05
mrtguy: folds
benandchels: folds
Maxx98: folds
me52: folds
lesnos: calls $0.05
Miikey722: raises $0.25 to $0.30
JACQUEV1: folds
Danutseye: calls $0.25
lesnos: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc Jh Kd]
Miikey722: bets $0.35
Danutseye: raises $2.65 to $3 and is all-in
Miikey722: folds
Uncalled bet ($2.65) returned to Danutseye
Danutseye collected $1.35 from pot
Danutseye: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.40 | Rake $0.05
Board [Qc Jh Kd]
Seat 1: lesnos (button) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Miikey722 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: JACQUEV1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Danutseye collected ($1.35)
Seat 5: mrtguy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: benandchels folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Maxx98 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: me52 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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bigspenda73
Old 01-30-2009, 03:58 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 stop posting when you're 5-tabling and concentrate on the game
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Micro2Macro
Old 01-30-2009, 04:07 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Bet more on flop. Getting shoved into here on this flop sucks but its a must fold.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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Old 01-30-2009, 04:26 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Bet more on flop.
Why?
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Micro2Macro
Old 01-30-2009, 04:48 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Bet more on flop.
Why?
I usually make my c-bets 2/3 - 3/4 the pot and I wouldn't alter the size based on the strength of my hand unless my opponent was easy to manipulate. If you've been playing TAG you can really rep that flop with nothing really, and a bigger bet will make it tougher for an opponent to raise back without a real hand. If you normally make say 2/3 - 3/4 pot c-bets and all of a sudden make it half something is out of line. Looks like a draw in this case.

Although I suppose if roughly half pot is his usual c-bet size then it makes sense to do no different here.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Revolver123
Old 01-30-2009, 04:59 AM #6 (permalink)  
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The thing to consider is that this is micro stakes and play should be adjusted accordingly. Players in micro make no "reads" on other players, they rather just play what they have without even considering what I might have.

Therefore while c-betting 2/3+ of the pot may be better at higher stakes to show strength, at micro I feel its a waste of money as if they have a good hand, they will call you regardless of what you bet.
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Micro2Macro
Old 01-30-2009, 05:04 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver123
The thing to consider is that this is micro stakes and play should be adjusted accordingly. Players in micro make no "reads" on other players, they rather just play what they have without even considering what I might have.

Therefore while c-betting 2/3+ of the pot may be better at higher stakes to show strength, at micro I feel its a waste of money as if they have a good hand, they will call you regardless of what you bet.
Yeah true. I suppose if they fit or fold might as well bet the least amount possible to minimize loss when your c-bet gets picked off.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Monty3038
Old 01-30-2009, 03:47 PM     Post subject: Re: Probably obvious but just making sure #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver123
Not sure why he would all in like this maybe I have bluffing syndrome going on...

PokerStars Game #24416989931: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/01/29 23:53:51 ET
Table 'Carlova' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: lesnos ($6.47 in chips)
Seat 2: Miikey722 ($11.83 in chips)
Seat 3: JACQUEV1 ($2 in chips)
Seat 4: Danutseye ($3.30 in chips)
Seat 5: mrtguy ($6.65 in chips)
Seat 6: benandchels ($5.53 in chips)
Seat 7: Maxx98 ($9.12 in chips)
Seat 8: me52 ($10.33 in chips)
Miikey722: posts small blind $0.02
JACQUEV1: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Miikey722 [Ts Th]
Danutseye: calls $0.05
mrtguy: folds
benandchels: folds
Maxx98: folds
me52: folds
lesnos: calls $0.05
Miikey722: raises $0.25 to $0.30
JACQUEV1: folds
Danutseye: calls $0.25
lesnos: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc Jh Kd]
Miikey722: bets $0.35
Danutseye: raises $2.65 to $3 and is all-in
Miikey722: folds
Uncalled bet ($2.65) returned to Danutseye
Danutseye collected $1.35 from pot
Danutseye: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.40 | Rake $0.05
Board [Qc Jh Kd]
Seat 1: lesnos (button) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Miikey722 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: JACQUEV1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Danutseye collected ($1.35)
Seat 5: mrtguy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: benandchels folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Maxx98 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: me52 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Ok, I'm surprised Spenda didn't mention it... but here goes...

What kind of read do you have on this player? What have you seen him show down with? What are his HUD stats?

Now that we have that info, let's re-analyze.

Without it, my thoughts are this... you are SB with nearly 4x his stack... he limps, you raise to protect your blind (if he is thinking this) and he calls, probably I put him on Ax at this point... maybe AJ, but I think potentially lower, or he could be sitting on two broadway cards... nice flop for someone in that position, but not that bad for you either... you have OESD, 10 outs total (not counting his probable holding, let's take one away for his ace) so you are facing a possible two pair or TPTk, with OESD. You bet 1/2 pot, to me as your villian that makes me put you on a pair, potentially Jacks of Queens considering you only bet 1/2 pot showing some weakness (without knowing your read I have to assume you're looking to take it down here)... and if I have Kings or two pair, I think I'm good.

So he shoves... that means he is pretty strong and looking to double up... do you have the odds to call? Let's see... the pot is now about $4 and it costs you $3 or around that to call, that isn't a very good ratio, and you are looking at let's say 9 outs, two cards to come, about a 36% chance of improving... but you might already be good... let's say 40% if he has Ax and is bluffing... still that isn't good enough to call, so it is a fold...

So I'm folding it without a read that he shoves his straight draws or Ax flops when he misses... but if you're a gambler like me, there are times when you call this mess.
 
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:28 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver123
The thing to consider is that this is micro stakes and play should be adjusted accordingly. Players in micro make no "reads" on other players, they rather just play what they have without even considering what I might have.

Therefore while c-betting 2/3+ of the pot may be better at higher stakes to show strength, at micro I feel its a waste of money as if they have a good hand, they will call you regardless of what you bet.
Yeah true. I suppose if they fit or fold might as well bet the least amount possible to minimize loss when your c-bet gets picked off.
You only need to bet the amount you think you'd bet with a good hand (say we have Kx)

on this flop against a king an ace has 7 outs, a ten has 8 outs
we're not paying off a bet if the board has 4 to a straight

so taking the number 8 outs, that's 16% to improve by the turn
we need to bet an amount that gives them worse pot %
if the pot is x, and we bet .3x, their call is .3x out of a total of 1.6x
that's 18.75% of the pot
and we'll bet .3x on the turn and c/f on any fourth straight card that doesn't improve our hand

so 30% of the pot is the smallest you can bet with a strong hand without giving correct odds
why not bet 30% with a weak hand?

although you should probably bet more because people call the flop with weak hands a lot if you bet a smaller amount, but 50% of the pot is quite respectable and I will sometimes valuebet 50% of the pot on dry boards
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