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denouement
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02-19-2005, 12:57 AM
Post subject: Premium hands against tight players
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 12
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I was reading a starting hand chart, and it mentioned that in early position, without any raises before you, it's a good idea (in limit hold em at least) to put in a raise against tight players with premium hands like KK and AA. What I'm not getting is, if you're up against tight players and you're in early position, wouldn't you be more likely to get no action by putting in a raise with such a good hand? Wouldn't it be smarter to put in a raise against loose players who are going to call with their marginal hands? Against tight players, it seems more logical to slowplay from early position by just calling the BB. Is my thinking flawed here?
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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"tight" player does not see a lot of flops, does not bet unless holds a solid hand or solid draw
"loose" plays any crap and does not respect raises
"agressive" raises and reraises, does not give free cards.
"passive" always calls or cold calls, almost never raises or reraises unless holding a monster
You want to use the terms together. tight/agressive & loose/passive, or loose/agressive, tight/passive.
Against tight/aggressive and loose/aggressive fire in a raise to get some more action. Against passive players limp and let them come along for the ride with the big hands. You are looking for the aggressive player to come after you preflop, or make an overagressive move on the flop or after. Keep in mind if you are at a fairly passive/loose table, you will get 4 or more callers and you need to raise to protect the hand.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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A tight player is probably not staying in with a bad hand anyway. Your raise may make them drop a few hands they'd have played otherwise, but probably not many. And against any other type of player, the raise is a great investment, any way you slice it.
- Jeffrey
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Yeah, it sucks but unless they are ultra-tight (think baby turtles), you pretty much have to bump it up and hope you catch 'em with something decent and not quite as decent as what you've got. Eventually they will call, and your postflop can be slower.
It's just not worth it to let too many people in when you've got good stuff.
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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In NL in EP with AA or KK and tight players behind you, I think it's a very good idea to limp, b/c there are many hands (ie 99-QQ, AQ, AK, value/steal raises from LP) that tight players will just cold call a raise from EP with but will put in a raise with if there are just limpers are front. Thus, you'll get to reraise a lot of times where you wouldn't ordinarily, and with AA or KK you want to get as much money in the pot as you can preflop.
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ripjohngotti
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
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I would never do that, i will always raise with k/k a/a......I always wanna have the upper hand on the flop them checking to me or respecting my bet that i put onto the pot with say 3 rags on the flop, or q/8/rag whatever. Call me and your gonna get owned, i will keep betting even bigger next time as long as it isn't a scare card.. U know how newbs play q/j to raises, if another paint comes off thats when ill be careful.
Raising=upperhand
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30%
Still looking for my royal flush.
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Vaun21
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 39
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Raising isn't a bad play w/ AA or KK, but limping with these can also be a good play and profitable. It's completely dependant on the table. If no one is giving action to solid PF raises, then limping in might be the best play. Let them hit top pair and you get paid a little more. If there's a lot of action, then a smaller raise might be a good play, allowing for a larger raise and then you can come back over the top.
Sure, by just limping in you're not isolating and allowing more people to see a cheap flop, but sometimes it's the right move.
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DarkenRahl
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Posts: 17
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Generally I would raise.
If you have one of those tight passive tables where no one ever plays against a pre flop raise then you might have to call and hope someone raises, you can then re-raise. This normally gets more money in the pot pre flop. Hopefully after the re-raise you are down to one or two callers.
As always you need to know the table first.
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And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall,
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call.
- Jefferson Airplane
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ripjohngotti
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
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Yeah, limp with aces ...
Then you got 4+ people probably in the pot giving you less odds that your aces/kings will win. Dont slowplay aces/kings raises, you want to NARROW the field and give better winning percentages.
6 people in pot with aces 
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30%
Still looking for my royal flush.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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What it comes down to, as mentioned above, is knowing your table. If everyone is going to fold everytime you raise 4xBB preflop, then make your standard raise 3x or (shudder) 2x. But remember, it's a lot easier to win $5 from one guy who called your preflop $5 than it is to win that same $5 from five guys who called your preflop $1 (and/or your preflop limp). Nothing in poker is absolute, but unless you're at a table where it's worth it to confuse the competition or every single person at the table folds to any preflop raise, I'd raise with AA/KK.
Oh, and if you are at that tight of a table, start raising preflop with some slightly more moderate hands. You'll either loosen them up (and if they prefer tight play, they may become horrid players if they try to play looser), or you'll make money on hands you might nott have normally won.
- Jeffrey
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