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r8ed
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12-15-2005, 12:35 AM
Post subject: Preflop raise amount when raising often
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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If you are raising over 15% of your hands preflop, what size raise is optimal? 4xbb?
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Jay67s
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 241
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You want to raise enough to serve its purpose, which is to thin the field. So the stakes you are playing, your position, and the number of limpers, and table texture should be taken into consideration.
If 4xBB is getting the field down to HU or 2 others most of the time then thats probably the correct number. I play 100nl I raise 3x BB with no limpers, I add $1 (bb) for every limper. If this doesn't work to thin the field regulary I go to 3.5bb.
At any table depending on the number of limpers my raise can be 3xbb to 6xbb.
My cards are not in the equation.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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The reason you're raising a lot is to create an image that stimulates action. Therefore, Make 5-6xBB a standard. It supplements the image you're creating, and it allows more isolation for your often inferior hands to give them a good shot at postflop fold equity. I find doing this only makes 1-2 people come after me at a time, and if it's 2-3, then I stay very cautious.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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The more often you raise, the smaller you want your raise amounts to be IMHO, because more often you're not comming in with the best hand and will have to bail to resistance.
I saw George running a 5x opener yesterday and it was sort of an action killer. I want mediocre and bad players to take flops with weak hands against me.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I did 4xbb and 6xbb last night and mixed it up (usually 4xbb when nobody entered the pot before me). It seemed to work fine. The 2xbb difference isn't huge but if you get deep into a marginal hand, it adds up. I like the idea of 3xbb + the $ in the pot before you from limpers.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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I'm guessing you're addressing a laggy sort of style. When I played laggy NL I raised 4x + limpers. 4x is a great raise because i feel tighties in the BB would call a 3x raise if they felt they could crack the annoying laggy player. Not sure why the difference between 3 and 4x is so great but in my experience it always has been.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
4x is a great raise because i feel tighties in the BB would call a 3x raise if they felt they could crack the annoying laggy player.
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Why do you want them to fold? I like it when otherwise tight players who aren't used to playing weak hands call off more money out of position.
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Krieg1984
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 93
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
4x is a great raise because i feel tighties in the BB would call a 3x raise if they felt they could crack the annoying laggy player.
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Why do you want them to fold? I like it when otherwise tight players who aren't used to playing weak hands call off more money out of position. |
Quoted for Truth.
I always thought 3xBB was the "perfect" amount (but now I guess that's the SNG and tourney player thinking I had.) Reason being, a 3x raise is twice the current pot (BB and SB) and if you win the blinds with this raise twice, but get caught on a third time, you've broken even. Of course, this doesn't take into account being reraised from the blinds, or being called and hitting the flop, so I have no idea how +EV it is.
As with most things in poker, it depends. If there is a horrible live one at my table who loves to call raises from the blinds and see a flop because "any two can win", I want to find how much I can raise that he'll call. If he wants to call 7xBB OOP consistently for example, I'm raising that amount. Another thing I look for is people who are too loose preflop but too tight postflop. I'm usually cbetting them with position and locking it down unless the texture of the flop is terrible. (Example: J  T 9  )
On the other end of the spectrum, if a weak-tight never wants to defend his blind and I'm considering a steal, I want to know what's the minimum amount I can raise to convince him to release the hand. If someone's giving up a blind for 2xBB, that's my play. (You'd be surprised at some of the guys in my regular home game; 100BB stacks and they fold to a minraise.)
But, as many of you say (and probably rightly so), the object in NLHE cash games is not to steal blinds and make all-in moves, it's a postflop game.
Argh, too complicated for me. I think the correct PFR amount is entirely situational. Can't think of anything else to type that explains it better.
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Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise  "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."
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