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salsa4ever
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10-07-2005, 04:03 PM
Post subject: Preflop play with big hands in NL25
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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Preflop play with big hands in NL 25
I'm considering re-evaluating my play on the big 3 hands: AA, KK, AK.
Currently, I'm raising with AK to my normal raise (3xbb or 4xbb). I find that it lets me win with continuation bets a lot of the time. But if an Ace or King flops it's hard to get paid off.
With AA or KK i'm torn between limping or raising in EP (UTG, +1 or +2). If I'm on an aggressive raising table I'll raise if the seconds column on my watch reads <45, and limp otherwise. In the case of the tight table, the number is <15. If I'm re-raised, then I will raise all in with AA or KK.
Is this a good way to play these hands? Is there something better I can do? Bear in mind I'm playing NL25
Cheers,
Salsa4ever
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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Be wiling to let go if no one raises. I just raise 5x BB everytime (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ).
Let us know how it goes...
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Les_Worm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
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I just standard raise 4x every time. If someone raises I tend to reraise them 3x, it seems to work well.
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The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Triptanes
Be wiling to let go if no one raises. I just raise 5x BB everytime (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ).
Let us know how it goes...
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Do you only raise these hands?
What about limping? All PPs in all positions and SCs in LP?
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I'm raising 5xBB at 25NL in all position for the hands Triptanes mentions and it's been working. 5xBB seems to be the secret formula (4 too low, 6 too high). I used to limp AK/AQ but they weren't winning money for me. Now I do that same raise for them and continuation bet. It works.
Whatever you do, don't limp AA/KK/QQ - you are asking for trouble. I limp AK/AQ from EP sometimes.
For AA/KK the preflop raising never ends with me calling a bet. If somebody reraises, I will at least double their raise. If they raise again, it's a push.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I wouldn't be too concerned with getting "paid off" when you flop TPTK holding AK. If you do your standard flop bet and take it down, there is nothing wrong with that. At 25NL, people will call with all kinds of garbage.. middle pair, a weaker K or A, inside straight draws, and they certainly aren't folding their flush draws  . If nobody calls a flop bet, you probably wouldn't have made much money on the hand anyway.
Don't limp KK/AA from EP. Don't limp it from MP. Don't limp it from LP. Raise it up.. ESPECIALLY at NL25 where you normally get a ton of action anyway.
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{This post has been removed}
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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another interesting EP theory is just flat betting $5 or someshit UTG, if anyone has a lower pair or AK they are probably going to call/push
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
Lukie I disagree
quickly and quietly limping in with A/A or K/K from UTG or UTG + 1 is a beautiful set up play.
On a full table with decent blinds you can almost bank on a raiser ahead of you. The idea is to build the pot pre flop. If you get lucky enough to get a raiser and a caller or two....THEN you reraise typically 1/2 the size of the existing pre flop pot. Inevitably you thin the field by a player or two and find yourself in a heads up situation (possibly a 3 way) as a strong favorite after the flop. Once in a while you are fortunate enough to have a player holding A/K or A/Q or a mid to high pocket pair reraise you all in. I find that firing out a big raise from EP holding Kings or Aces tends to scare out any action and more often than not, only taking down the blinds. The idea here is to mask the strength of your hand and look to trap the aggressor acting ahead of you. Ive doubled up so many times using this move its not even funny....a lot more often than leading out with a pre flop bet UTG and following up post flop. Try it you'll like it :P
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I agree with you that this can be a beautiful setup play that can pay off big.. especially if you are disciplined to lay down KK/AA when you know you are beat. However, at your normal NL25 table, you are going to get action anyway, even if you raise from UTG. I think limping AA/KK CAN be a great trap play if you are a skilled player playing against other competent, aware opponents. From personal experience, I have seen very few of those at NL25. Also, no disrespect intended to anyone, but people asking for advice on how to play their monsters preflop generally aren't the ones that should be trying to get cute with plays like that, although I'm not the kind of player that says you HAVE to play KK/AA a certain way in all situations. JMO
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Don't get stuck in the "I raise these hands 4-5bb and that is all" mode. Some nights you gotta raise harder than others. Some days you have to raise less than others.
During the summer when I was able to play at all hours of the day (I'm a teacher) I noticed that if you bet 4bb during the day you were likely not to get ANY callers. So 3bb would be my typical raise during the day.
At night, though, it was a different story (especially on the weekends). I've raised to $2 preflop UTG with AA and had no less than SEVEN callers behind me. That was a nutty table, yes, but my point is that I think the table decides what your raises are. Figure out what will get you to heads up (or against two people) and go with that figure. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less.
As far as limping UTG with AA, I love doing it on aggressive tables. Let somebody else jack it up for you. Just last night I limped UTG, next guy raises to $1, and there are five calls after him. It gets to me and I jack it up to $8 to make it look like I'm stealing the pot. It folds around to the guy on the button, who pushes. He flips over AQ and my AA takes down a pretty big pot for NL25.
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