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Pre-flop Raises: Regular player- beginner question

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bigslikk

04-23-2006, 12:10 AM Post subject: Pre-flop Raises: Regular player- beginner question

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

Hi I regularly play poker house / cash games with friends and of course we have all tapped into the info/ lit and know our stuff pretty well.

Starting off poker, I learned to raise pocket pairs, because % wise they fare better against fewer opponents. Also that you should prefer many callers for drawing hands, b/c those hands need good pot odds to justify playing them. Well- i have two questions

First- remind me- are u supposed to raise pre-flop premiums like AJo, AQo, AKs, etc (non-pocket pair, premium)? I know overcards stastically play well head-to-head but do these hands play well in multipot?????

Second- I used to raise by-the-book limping with weak, raising with solid/ mid hands, and raising significant with good hands. (knowing full well that u shud raise about the same each time) if u raise only with good / playable hands won't u become a rock?? Too predictible???? So, in order to become unpredictible, suggestions?? raise poorer hands??? i dunno. Just need some brush-ups on some basics.

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Staresy

04-23-2006, 12:34 AM Post subject: Re: Pre-flop Raises: Regular player- beginner question

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land

Posts: 1,240

First off, welcome to FTR!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigslikk

Starting off poker, I learned to raise pocket pairs, because % wise they fare better against fewer opponents.

hmmm ..... not all pp's are necessarily raises. You can limp many small to mid pp's and play for set value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigslikk

First- remind me- are u supposed to raise pre-flop premiums like AJo, AQo, AKs, etc (non-pocket pair, premium)? I know overcards stastically play well head-to-head but do these hands play well in multipot?????

I'm afraid it's the age-old poker response "it depends"!! Is this a cash game or a tournament? Your table position also plays a crucial part in the response.

I am primarily a SnG player, and if we take AJ for example, I would actually fold this from UTG at a full table with low blinds. Yet, when the blinds are big, my stack is big, we're on the bubble and I have position, I am raising every day of the week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigslikk

Second- I used to raise by-the-book limping with weak, raising with solid/ mid hands, and raising significant with good hands. (knowing full well that u shud raise about the same each time) if u raise only with good / playable hands won't u become a rock?? Too predictible???? So, in order to become unpredictible, suggestions?? raise poorer hands??? i dunno. Just need some brush-ups on some basics.

A little, but that isn't such a bad thing. When you raise, people should realise you have a hand, which should, and I repeat should deter people from calling with crap. However, if we play against each other and you raise with the top 20 or so hands, I still have to work out which possible hand(s) you've got.

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aokrongly

04-23-2006, 01:31 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 863

great first post. welcome to ftr. We'll have you smoking your buddies in no time.

Generally i advise a rather tight/agressive, predictable style of play where you grind out small wins over a long period. However, I'm generally talking to people who want to play many tables at the same time, online.

For you I have more questions than suggestions at this point.

What stakes do you play?
How often do you play?
How long do you play when you do play?
How many players?
Do you just play TX Holdem or do you play a selection of games?
What is the general knowledge of the people you play against? Do any of them play outside your normal game? Do any of them play online?
How agressive are they when they have a had or are bluffing?
do you play limit or no limit?

The reason I ask all this is because ifyou're going to only play this game and are going to play the same people over and over then you need to tailor your game to beating them. It doesn't matter if your game is perfect for by-the-book play, it may not win THERE when you only play 100 hands per week or even per month.

Statistics don't lie, and standard play is good (what I call standard play is what you read in books). However, standard play is based on thousands and tens of thousands of hands. Online multi-table players do 15k to 30k hands per month and standard play works for them. But ifyou play 20 hands per hour 4 hours per week, then you're not playing statistical poker. So you're going ot have to

Play The Player.

So, start laying out the players for us, and give us your observations of how your game plays.

bigslikk

04-23-2006, 12:12 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

Our weekly cash games-

$5 buy-in, with unlimited $5-7 rebuy when eliminated
.10 / .20 to start, increases buy time or elimination to .50 / $1
Some people play about every week, others every other week (like me)
Game Duration- 7 hours usually - longest has been 10 hours
players, 7-9
NL TX holdem only
I dont believe any play outside, maybe play money online... not really

We play so often I think i know the players pretty well.
The easiest ones are the "calling stations"- loose, passive players and the rock, who is tight, passive- never raises.

There are many agressive (mostly loose) players at the table, these guys are the strongest at their game and usually do most of the winning (one of them, anyway) One loose, agressive guy is easy to beat- I don't give his frequent large bets much respect anymore.

I believe I'm the only successful "tight" or conservative poker player at the table- but my playing style has put me in 2nd or 3rd place consistently over time. I make a few dollars, win some respect, but never the big pot at the end (and the glory, of course).

I think my trouble lies with shorthanded end-game (5,4,3 players). I play more hands, try to be more agressive but I can't face the 1 or 2 huge stacks that have built up since. Advice?

aokrongly

04-23-2006, 03:25 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 863

so you're playing a little home NL rebuy tournament. got it
i have no advice for that. Others will.

Xo_Sirk_oX

04-23-2006, 04:26 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 96

Welcome to FTR. Hope some of the following advice will assist in the next round of Poker you play.
In home games a lot limpers is common. You came to play just as everyone else. Not to fold and sit for 5 minutes for the next hand ( exageration yes but the point is there)

Quote:

First- remind me- are u supposed to raise pre-flop premiums like AJo, AQo, AKs,

These hands in home games are generally not "good" hands in multi-player pots. The reason is they will end trapping you. In these pots suited connectors are the key. If you play with the "heads up" premium hands ( AJo, AQo, AKs ) your looking to get a straight or flush not top pair good kick/top kicker. More often then not since people will still limp in they will hit 2 pair and you will surely lose in the long run.

As Staresy said With Lower Pocket Pairs your looking for the Set, If it does not hit do not waste throwing money into the Pot Unless you have a good read on the person betting.

Quote:

I used to raise by-the-book limping with weak, raising with solid/ mid hands

With this one thing that works well in home games is you can "litterally" play with a person. You can " bluff " and if you get called can blow it off ( Something to the effect as " You got me, so on and so forth ) then the next time you make a similiar raise/reraise they have to think twice. I have found Online a reraise does somewhat little, but in Home Games people tend to think twice ( unless they have the nut ).

On the aspect of short handed, Suited anything pretty much, Ax BUT do not get trapped with a low kicker. If you have online software installed and have some "free" time you can watch alot of the Multi-Table Tourneys come to an end, watching what people value higher and see which style in action you like...

My little 2¢

Do not let the last play cloud the current.

Current Goal - Build a BR on PS from $5.81

Current BR $7.41

Awaji E

04-24-2006, 01:18 AM Post subject: Re: Pre-flop Raises: Regular player- beginner question

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Japan

Posts: 61

Quote:

AKs is the 3rd or 4th best hand you can have, (AA, KK, QQ, AKs), so I would say you should always raise with these hands. If you don't raise with these, what would you raise with??? AJo and AQo are raise-worthy in late position, but you're in danger if you call a raise with them.

Quote:

If your raises with AA KK QQ and AK are all getting called, then there isn't too much reason to loosen up, IMO. You can also raise JJ TT, but it sounded like you always raise PPs, and that may be wrong. If you want to loosen up your raises, try with something like 78s. If you actually hit something, everyone will assume you missed. If you missed but there are otherwise good cards on the board, people might assume you hit, so, put in one more bet, but then fold to pressure.

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