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ender555
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04-28-2005, 01:07 AM
Post subject: practicing loose aggressive..
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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well it seems like i can build up my stack by about 20% or so,
but then i just get fucked playing loose aggresive and get called by everyone with anything.
Yes, i then switch up to tight but i still get hammered on one pot and usually lose what i just made + now i can't bluff at all.
And sometimes my bluffs just get owned and i lose 30 bucks in a hand. it really really sucks. I even smell fear, they will bet small bet small then check river, and i will hammer down a huge bet...
i think that loose aggressive is just not for me.. i need a trainer or something
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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some times i do really good. some times i do really really bad
i never try with "real" money (aka, I only do this with small ammounts of mt bankroll .. I'll buy into $25 NL with $10 and go from there)
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Is there some special reason that you want to play like this? If you're losing money playing loose and aggressive, why do it?
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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Quote:
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Is there some special reason that you want to play like this? If you're losing money playing loose and aggressive, why do it?
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Because, thats the method that makes the most money from what I've saw...
TA plays the cards...
Hyper Agg plays the players....
After watching Rippy a few times, I'm convinced that this is one of the best ways (or the best) to play..
It's also the hardest method to master...
Thats why I only play that way once in a while, and always with small amounts of money.
Note: The above is just my personal Opinion, and could be totally wrong...
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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It's the best way to experience huge swings in your bankroll.
There are a lot of players who are very successful using a tight style of play (Howard Lederer and Dan Harrington, for example), and I'm not aware of any reason to believe that playing very aggressively and bluffing a lot is somehow an "optimal" strategy which is superior to playing tight.
Anyways, I'm willing to bet that most of the players that you're playing with are calling station fish. You shouldn't be trying to bluff these players very much at all.
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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Quote:
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Anyways, I'm willing to bet that most of the players that you're playing with are calling station fish. You shouldn't be trying to bluff these players very much at all.
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I'm also willing to be that i'm not good enough to pull it off yet anyway =)
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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It's not the best style to use all the time, but it can destroy tight games.
However, if you're in a game where people are raising every flop, just camp for cards. When you see everyone folding, it's time to stir up the action.
look for games where half the table is limping preflop, every hand... these are your ideal targets. Get in there and raise, bluff, show down bad hands, then tighten up and get paid off.. its that simple
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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To try this I look for tables with a high "see flop %", and a low pot soze =)
I assumes thats what your talking about?
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Lucid
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 142
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I have learned a very simple way to help with the Tag vs Lag delima. Get game time + or player view and use the VPIP statistic to determine how you will play your hand. If you are facing someone with a VPIP of 70 do not try to steal pots from him. Wait until you have good hands and make him pay to draw. If you are facing someone with a VPIP of 20 or less try and steal every pot you can from him. The optimal position to sit down at is with two rocks behind you that you can steal from all day and lags in front of you that have position on and can wait for better hands. Dont be a total lag or tag; be a smart player that applies the right strategy to the right situation.
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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good points, thanks
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Quote:
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There are a lot of players who are very successful using a tight style of play (Howard Lederer and Dan Harrington, for example),
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Players like Daniel Negreanu and Gus Hansen will often raise 20-30% pre flop.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
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Where does that number come from? What game/structure? Cash or tourney?
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Cash or tourney is a critical issue here. I know Rippy is a brilliant tournament player, where aggression can be a huge factor in whether or not you win - particularly against a weak/tight field. But I have no idea how he is in ring games, or if his style is at all optimal for making money there. Personally I think it could be a good approach if you were careful picking your tables and opponents. If you just randomly play LAgg against whoever in ring games, your bankroll will go up and down like a rollercoaster. Sometimes you just latch on to the wrong people when you're playing like that.
(By the way, I've been going through a prolonged period of experimentation with LAgg play myself. Partly because of Rippy's posts here, but largely because two of my poker buddies play this way all the time, and I want to understand them from the inside out. So a lot of my posts on FTR for the near future are going to be pretty crazy-looking.)
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ender555
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Laeelin
some times i do really good. some times i do really really bad
i never try with "real" money (aka, I only do this with small ammounts of mt bankroll .. I'll buy into $25 NL with $10 and go from there)
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i dont think u can really harness the energy of LA with half the buy in.
you wont be able to scare many people out of pots with that low of a buy in
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ender555
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lucid
I have learned a very simple way to help with the Tag vs Lag delima. Get game time + or player view and use the VPIP statistic to determine how you will play your hand. If you are facing someone with a VPIP of 70 do not try to steal pots from him. Wait until you have good hands and make him pay to draw. If you are facing someone with a VPIP of 20 or less try and steal every pot you can from him. The optimal position to sit down at is with two rocks behind you that you can steal from all day and lags in front of you that have position on and can wait for better hands. Dont be a total lag or tag; be a smart player that applies the right strategy to the right situation.
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yeah i think this is key, i will work on knowing my table image and using it to my advantage...
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Lucid
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ender555
yeah i think this is key, i will work on knowing my table image and using it to my advantage...
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Actually I was talking about the other players' statistics, but your table image is important too.
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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I dont see LAgg as being an idiot calling station all-in type of person...I just see it more along the lines of supersystem, and then pushing around the tight people on top of that. Youre gonna look pretty crazy just playing how I described. No matter how you play, youre gonna have to be patient.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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i have been playing more lag for the past couple days, and honestly, i have had a lot of success with it, which surprises me because i used to be reallly really skeptical. But, everyone go try this exercise. Wait until you are in late position, and there are no raisers before you, maybe a couple callers. Raise to 4xBB, with any sort of reasonable hand (any connector/gapper/suited is nice). Then, bet maybe just under the size of the pot on the flop, a BB less or so. check/fold afterward, fold preflop to re-raises. let me know what happens, i think you'll be surprised. I have probably made half my earnings off moves like this alone where people call my raise preflop, then i bet the pot on the flop and they all fold picking me up a quick 8xBB. Doing that once or twice an orbit adds up quick when you add in your real hands.
Oh, thought i'd add, right now in this room i'm at seeing 34% of hands preflop, i'm winning 20% of total games in the room, 41% of the flops i see, and 66% of showdowns, and i've tripled my buy-in.
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