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Pot odds vs. a short stack

  
 
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spoonitnow
Old 10-28-2007, 04:14 PM     Post subject: Pot odds vs. a short stack #1 (permalink)  
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 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($17)
SB ($24.05)
BB ($16.90)
UTG ($185)
UTG+1 ($220.60)
MP1 ($90.70)
MP2 ($60.45)
MP3 ($55.60)
Hero ($100)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A.
UTG calls $1, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, BB raises to $16.9, UTG folds, Hero calls $11.90.

Flop: ($35.30) A, 5, T (2 players)

Turn: ($35.30) J (2 players)

River: ($35.30) A (2 players)

Final Pot: $35.30

Yeah I'm bored.

I'm calling $11.90 to win $23.40. To break even on the call I need to win 11.90/35.30 ~ 33% of the time. We have 31.2% equity against QQ+, AQ+ (the range that we're most worried about because it dominates us). If we throw in JJ or something we actually have a coinflip against, we're easily above our 33% requirement.

The point is that if we know we're okay to call against a range that's mostly hands that dominate us, we know we're okay to call against a bigger, more realistic range.

Questions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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daven
Old 10-29-2007, 04:11 AM     Post subject: Re: Pot odds vs. a short stack #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Questions?
1) how bored are you?
2) call this same bet if both you and villain have 100bb behind? Reverse implied odds and do you get owned if flop is Axx?
3) I should look at more stats for some hand vs hand stuff - AQo really 1/3 against AQ+/QQ+?
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bigspenda73
Old 10-29-2007, 04:20 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 easy call, your range for him sucks
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spoonitnow
Old 10-29-2007, 01:19 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
easy call, your range for him sucks
Then you're missing the point by far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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spoonitnow
Old 10-29-2007, 01:21 PM     Post subject: Re: Pot odds vs. a short stack #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Questions?
1) how bored are you?
2) call this same bet if both you and villain have 100bb behind? Reverse implied odds and do you get owned if flop is Axx?
3) I should look at more stats for some hand vs hand stuff - AQo really 1/3 against AQ+/QQ+?
1. Pretty damn bored.
2. No. Reverse implied odds and what the flop will be has nothing to do with preflop calls for all of your stack.
3. Download Poker Stove and have at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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Chopper
Old 10-29-2007, 01:30 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Chopper
shortys like this push so much trash, maths or not, you have to be ahead of HIS range by a good bit.

if he's a normal (bad) shorty, he is pushing any A here and any pp, a lot of K-crap, and two broadways.

you should be killing that range. it may be a bit wide, but with super shortys, they push all sorts of stuff they shouldnt.

its more a player/bad player call than a math call, imo.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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spoonitnow
Old 10-29-2007, 01:36 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
shortys like this push so much trash, maths or not, you have to be ahead of HIS range by a good bit.

if he's a normal (bad) shorty, he is pushing any A here and any pp, a lot of K-crap, and two broadways.

you should be killing that range. it may be a bit wide, but with super shortys, they push all sorts of stuff they shouldnt.

its more a player/bad player call than a math call, imo.
You're closer to the point that I used a little math to illustrate, but I'll go ahead and spell it out.

In a perfect world for villain, he would only have hands that dominate us. If we briefly look at what happens inside of this perfect scenario for villain, we see that even then we're almost justified to call, so you can call without going any further in your thinking.

You can use a similar thought process when short-stacking yourself to find out what the flat-bottom range is that you can always push with and be +EV regardless of your opponents' ranges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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