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DreamWeaver
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08-24-2007, 04:40 PM
Post subject: Pot odds vs Pot Equity
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2
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I'm a little confused how you use pot odds in NL hold'em.
In limit hold'em for example you need ~5:1 to call with your OESDs. But in NL I see people are regularly calling all-in in the same spot with 3:1 and saying things like "I'm about 30% to hit, and getting 3:1 on my money I'm about break even" which just doesn't make sense to me. Thats obviously a losing proposition. They can call 30% of the POT SIZE and be breakeven, yes, but they can't just call an all-in because they have 3:1, right?
Yet I see it over and over.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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http://www.pokerstove.com/
I think maybe you're not making the distinction between having 1 card to come and 2 cards to come. 5:1 sounds about right (I'm not a limit player) because you're going to be facing a bigger bet on the turn and so you're not gonna get to see the river.
Also, watch out for bad players making excuses for playing bad because they cant fold a draw.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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not sure who told you you need 5-1 odds to call an oesd in limit but that is way to tight.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
not sure who told you you need 5-1 odds to call an oesd in limit but that is way to tight.
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... no ... ?
To see a turn you need 4.88:1. I think calling that ~5 is perfectly fine.
I think OP has it right and just isnt confident about it.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
not sure who told you you need 5-1 odds to call an oesd in limit but that is way to tight.
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... no ... ?
To see a turn you need 4.88:1. I think calling that ~5 is perfectly fine.
I think OP has it right and just isnt confident about it. |
Gota count implied odds. There are all sorts of formulas runing around but a simple one i got out of holdem brain is this.
take the pot oddsxouts. then if that number is greater then the number of non outs you should call or raise. Example you are playing 1-2 limit and flop an oesd with no flushdraws possible. The pot has 4 bucks and it is one to go giving us 4-1. Outsxodds or 8x4=32 Hold on though we can assume atleast 1 more bet gained if we hit the turn. So lets say 8x5=40. 40 is greater then the number of bad calls so a call is good.
PS.
i know you understand oddsbut i was just explaining how the system works
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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lol, he means with 2 cards to come
BTW if you're getting 3:1 on a 30% shot you make money by calling. You only have to make your hand 25% of the time to break even and you make it more than that.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
lol, he means with 2 cards to come
BTW if you're getting 3:1 on a 30% shot you make money by calling. You only have to make your hand 25% of the time to break even and you make it more than that.
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I might be reading that wrong but... what?
edit: nevermind, I was indeed reading that wrong.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Pot Equity: % of the pot you would win we stopped the betting and run all hands to showdown a bunch of times.
Pot Odds: The odds the pot + current bet is offering you if you call. Alternative usage is to say you had "pot" odds because your call figured to make you more money in the long run than it cost dispite having less than your fair share of Pot Equity.
Also, sometimes it's correct to make a call getting the slight worst of it to stop/discourage your opponents from making devistating bluffs against you.
Example: In a big multi-way limit hold'em pot if I'm checked raised on the turn and I have pocket Aces, I probably won't win the pot often enough to call down, yet sometimes I do because if I always fold here it would encourage my opponents to take shots at very large pots against me by putting in an extra bet.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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