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newbie007

11-20-2007, 04:28 PM Post subject: Pot Equity Question

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 2

I have a question regarding "pot equity".

If you are playing at a table with 9plyrs your pot equity before the flop is 11%... 100/9=11.. am I on the right trac here so far?

3/6 limit
if you're in mp with J9

and the flop comes: A

at this point how do you determine what your pot equtiy is?

If the first person to act bets and there is a raise, you're next to act how do you use pot equit to help in your decision, just on pot odds the correct play is to release the hand

Looking forward to any replies...

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XTR1000

11-20-2007, 06:20 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2006

Location: surfing in a room

Posts: 2,188

XTR1000 is an unknown quantity at this point

Your equity b4 flop would only be 11% if you played blind. Your equity preflop is actually your hand vs 8 random hands.

J9s would have 17%

2,870,302 games 12.038 secs 238,436 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 17.080% 15.85% 01.23% 455058 35238.08 { J9s }
Hand 1: 11.835% 10.80% 01.04% 310040 29708.00 { random }
Hand 2: 11.835% 10.79% 01.05% 309711 30038.42 { random }
Hand 3: 11.868% 10.83% 01.04% 310802 29882.42 { random }
Hand 4: 11.815% 10.77% 01.04% 309176 29983.25 { random }
Hand 5: 11.861% 10.82% 01.04% 310576 29927.42 { random }
Hand 6: 11.867% 10.83% 01.04% 310731 29941.00 { random }
Hand 7: 11.839% 10.79% 01.05% 309799 30046.42 { random }

Once the flop is dealt things become more tricky, b/c you will have to assign a hand range to each villian and will then estimate your pot equity against those ranges

To makes things easier we assume a heads up pot and you give villian a range containing something likes AT+, KJ, QJ, JT,J9,J8,J7, 99, TT. Your pot equity against this range is 38%

2,377,658 games 26.963 secs 88,182 games/sec

Board: Ah 2s Jd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.936% 31.84% 07.10% 757069 168747.00 { Jh9h }
Hand 1: 61.064% 53.97% 07.10% 1283235 168748.00 { TT-99, ATs+, KJs, QJs, J7s+, ATo+, KJo, QJo, J7o+ }

No compare pot odds to pot equity and you can decide if its worth calling or not.

To practice this pot equity thing just download pokerstove and type in some hands you´re not sure what your PE might be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

xtr stand for exotic tranny retards

yo

arborman

11-20-2007, 06:37 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

And I would fold the hand in question because your equity is not enough to make a call or raise worthwhile.

Robb

11-21-2007, 03:20 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by arborman

And I would fold the hand in question because your equity is not enough to make a call or raise worthwhile.

Not necessarily. There are pot odds, implied pot odds and fold equity to consider. Here, you are probably behind and need to fold. Here is a quote from the FAQs section of the pokerstove website:

"Q13. PokerStove is a hot and cold simulator, what does that mean?

"It means that all hands are simulated through showdown. No one is allowed to bet, raise or fold. Because of this, there are a lot of unrealistic situations that might get included in the equity calculation if you are using PokerStove to evaluate scenarious where there is still betting to occur. If you have a good understanding of implied odds, effective odds, and reverse implied odds, you should be able to benefit from the equity calculations. But any time you use PokerStove in this manner, you should be careful about drawing strong conclusions about how you should play the hand. "

I was playing the other day with KK out of position. I raise and get called preflop, got called after betting 2/3 of the pot on an Ace-rag-rag rainbow flop. Yikes. I check/call the turn when he makes a tiny bet. The river is a K, and I bet out. Now my only worries are not being able to get the rest of his money in. He rr's all-in with A2 sooooted.

In that example, I had apparently had zero fold equity - he was playing those Aces to the felt. But I had good implied odds, since he had 9x the pot in his stack as we started to bet the turn. And he was the type of player who was likely to chase TPNK too far.

So a lot comes into it. But use poker stove to check yourself on various plays, and try to develop your reads. It will come with practice.

arborman

11-21-2007, 05:58 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

Let me clarify. In a limit game with that many players and that hand, I would fold the flop because my equity is too low. No Limit has the additional variable of bet size, which can shift things around a lot. Probably why I suck at NL.

Robb

11-22-2007, 12:37 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by arborman

Probably true - but don't worry about sucking. Discussing poker at FTR has really helped my game, and even though I still suck, I suck a lot less than most of my opponents. Stay in here, post some hands, read the other posts, and you won't suck very long.

arborman

11-22-2007, 05:47 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by arborman

Nah, I make a good winrate over 60,000 hands at Limit and will stick to it until I get insanely bored. So far I enjoy the hell out of it. NL is fun for those who like it, and I play the occasional micro SNG for shits 'n giggles, but Limit is my game.

Later on I'll slice off a piece of my bankroll and have a go at cash game NL, but for now I'm sticking with what I'm good at.

Robb

11-22-2007, 06:09 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by arborman

Limit is my game.

Later on I'll slice off a piece of my bankroll and have a go at cash game NL, but for now I'm sticking with what I'm good at.

That's a good plan. Maybe I'll follow it. Now...I just need to find a game I'm good at

JeffreyGB

11-27-2007, 05:10 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

To throw another kink in the decision-chain, it's a mistake to assume you're in a heads-up situation and figure your equity accordingly. You must discount the value of your hand significantly for players left to act. Yet another benefit of position (no one acting behind you means no discount needed).

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