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leotran
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07-16-2010, 08:59 AM
Post subject: Post flop play, bluff or fold?
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#1 (permalink)
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High Card
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 12
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What is the general rule of thumb post flop for when you are playing a small pair and the flop is all high cards or your playing an ace high broadway and the flop is all low cards?
I've been playing against a lot of calling stations, at the 2nl level am I just to assume they don't have anything near my range and just rail them on every hand in my range even when I flop air or am I suppose to fold any time I miss the flop and hope for the next time?
I know this is a general ass question but it's just such a major issue in my game, I'm good on pre-flop what hand ranges I'm comfortable with in what position and taking advantage of that. It's post flop when I don't obviously have the best hand that I don't know when to cut and run or when to shove it all in.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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post an actual hand for advice. My first bit of advice would be c-bet a lot in hu pots but give up if you have air and they call you. In general it's a bad idea to double barrel at 2nl.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Does it sound like a good idea to bluff calling stations?
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leotran
I've been playing against a lot of calling stations, at the 2nl level am I just to assume they don't have anything near my range and just rail them on every hand in my range even when I flop air or am I suppose to fold any time I miss the flop and hope for the next time?
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Barreling stations when you have air, regardless of your range, is not smart poker. Stations are so easy to play against. Hit a hand and value bet away. At 2nl, you can usually get 3 streets of value with just top pair. And since they're so passive, you can easily fold when raised unless we have a very strong hand.
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shallam
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 98
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Playing small pocket pairs.
A couple of different ways you can go....
1. set mining only, if you don't flop a set or all undercards you fold
2. set mining plus, if you don't flop a set call if there are one or fewer non-ace overcards (or the more complex version is to put your opp on a range figure the odds and call if they are favorable).
3. Raise a flop CB to see where you are at....fold if raised, hope to check it down if called unless you hit a set.
Any of these are ok for favorable looking flops. What you don't want to do is ending up stacking off, w an unimproved hand like 88.
The juicer the flop the more inclined you should be to take line number 1. The lower your pair the more inclined you should be to to take line number 1 (you can call more with 99 than 22).
An additional option is too try to take control of the hand PF by raising or ReR, then checking unless you hit a set. Your PF aggression should you give you a free card or two post-flop and build a big pot should you be lucky enough to hit a set against a strong overpair. Also you'll be a slight favorite against a hand like AK.
Most of the time life is going to boil to down to number one above.
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shallam
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 98
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And has been noted here in the past at this limit you will primarily make money value betting strong hands. You will find making money is quite easy if you are acutely aware of bet sizes, both your's and your opps. Know what your hand is worth, and play it for it's core value. If someone wants to play for big bets and you have a small hand FOLD.
Don't get stubborn, and don't try to play sheriff calling big bets with small hands hoping to catch a bluffer.
Be patient, take advantage of the fact that your OPPs will call for more than their hand is worth. Money comes from value betting.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shallam
Playing small pocket pairs.
A couple of different ways you can go....
1. set mining only, if you don't flop a set or all undercards you fold
2. set mining plus, if you don't flop a set call if there are one or fewer non-ace overcards (or the more complex version is to put your opp on a range figure the odds and call if they are favorable).
3. Raise a flop CB to see where you are at....fold if raised, hope to check it down if called unless you hit a set.
Any of these are ok for favorable looking flops. What you don't want to do is ending up stacking off, w an unimproved hand like 88.
The juicer the flop the more inclined you should be to take line number 1. The lower your pair the more inclined you should be to to take line number 1 (you can call more with 99 than 22).
An additional option is too try to take control of the hand PF by raising or ReR, then checking unless you hit a set. Your PF aggression should you give you a free card or two post-flop and build a big pot should you be lucky enough to hit a set against a strong overpair. Also you'll be a slight favorite against a hand like AK.
Most of the time life is going to boil to down to number one above.
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I think a beginner would be best served to just set hunt. If he does raise checking when he misses is a bad idea. C-betting is a powerful tool at 2nl. My default line for playing small pairs is to raise preflop then c-bet. If they raise me i factor in direct and implied odds and go from there. Same if they donkbet into on the flop. I am in the red with every pair in every position use this strat.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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well usually with small pocket pairs you'll be open folding pre, folding to a raise(not giving us good odds, their ranges are too wide, good chance someone behind us may open the betting again), overlimping, or open raising. Obviously we don't have to play the hands we fold pre, so we be in spots where we have overlimped pre or had open raised. When we overlimp we pretty much give up all the fold equity our hand had, so we just end up set mining and folding if we miss. If we raise pre it's not really that hard to play on the flop because we won't usually be cbetting for a few reasons assuming we miss. 1) The hands we fold out will almost always be worse than ours (not folding better) 2) The worse hands in his range won't call (we aren't getting value). If villain bets then we can peel a card trying to get to showdown or just fold, depending on raise size and his range.
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