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Stripclubjunkie
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07-08-2006, 08:20 PM
Post subject: Position vs. pf raiser, what do you reraise with?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
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You're playing cash game and someone before you puts in a standard raise. What do you reraise with?
Strip
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givememyleg
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Stripclubjunkie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
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I was just thinking that "most" including myself reraise to little pf, it could be not reraising QQ. If one did, one would get more info about your opp. hand...
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takesix
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07-08-2006, 08:36 PM
Post subject: Re: Position vs. pf raiser, what do you reraise with?
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#4 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie
You're playing cash game and someone before you puts in a standard raise. What do you reraise with?
Strip
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My first post! YaY!
The simple answer? It depends.
Do they make "big laydowns?" Do they call down to the river habitually? This matters.
Uber Rock? AA or KK, and I fold KK to a re-re-raise. These guys are pretty few and far between though.
Calling station? I flat call unless its a top 5 hand. I can outplay them anyway.
Against 90% of the population? As a general rule, if I have it in my head that I WILL re-raise (and I like seeing cheap-ish flops) and assuming no reads, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 1010 if I'm running really well, AKs, AQs, AKo.
I admit that I re-raise fairly infrequently though so take that as you will.
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Stripclubjunkie
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07-08-2006, 08:41 PM
Post subject: Re: Position vs. pf raiser, what do you reraise with?
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Stripclubs
Posts: 1,293
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by takesix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie
You're playing cash game and someone before you puts in a standard raise. What do you reraise with?
Strip
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My first post! YaY!
The simple answer? It depends.
Do they make "big laydowns?" Do they call down to the river habitually? This matters.
Uber Rock? AA or KK, and I fold KK to a re-re-raise. These guys are pretty few and far between though.
Calling station? I flat call unless its a top 5 hand. I can outplay them anyway.
Against 90% of the population? As a general rule, if I have it in my head that I WILL re-raise (and I like seeing cheap-ish flops) and assuming no reads, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 1010 if I'm running really well, AKs, AQs, AKo.
I admit that I re-raise fairly infrequently though so take that as you will. |
I know it depends and all that, but you would know when your QQ is not good if you reraise it pf, and risk not going broke on 7xx flop vs KK/AA!
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takesix
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07-08-2006, 08:47 PM
Post subject: Re: Position vs. pf raiser, what do you reraise with?
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#6 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie
I know it depends and all that, but you would know when your QQ is not good if you reraise it pf, and risk not going broke on 7xx flop vs KK/AA!
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From my experience at $25NL and $50NL (primarily $25NL though) people practically SCREAM at you they have AA or KK or a set. Say they raise 3x the BB and you 3-bet them, and they 3-bet YOU, and you have QQ. Unless I see them pulling this crap every 5 minutes, I toss my cards in a heartbeat and don't think twice about it.
Ok, so they just call your 3-bet and now on the flop its uhh 3 7 10. Flop is uhh $6 for the sake of argument, you lead out with $4.50/$5, they raise you $15+ or all in off the bat, toss it. See above. People fairly SCREAM it at you, and you have to be deaf not to "hear" it.
They check, you raise, they 3-bet? Goodnight, toss the cards.
Don't be afraid to check behind and get another card to evaluate. If you're not sure and they keep checking to you, check behind. They do it on the turn too, and its a blank, do it too. I'm quite rarely wrong putting people on AA, and I've seen quite a few people check it down to the river, waiting for the c/r that will never come, and they take a 15 BB pot from my 99 instead of a 100 BB one.
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Stripclubjunkie
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07-08-2006, 08:51 PM
Post subject: Re: Position vs. pf raiser, what do you reraise with?
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#7 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Stripclubs
Posts: 1,293
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by takesix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie
I know it depends and all that, but you would know when your QQ is not good if you reraise it pf, and risk not going broke on 7xx flop vs KK/AA!
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From my experience at $25NL and $50NL (primarily $25NL though) people practically SCREAM at you they have AA or KK or a set. Say they raise 3x the BB and you 3-bet them, and they 3-bet YOU, and you have QQ. Unless I see them pulling this crap every 5 minutes, I toss my cards in a heartbeat and don't think twice about it.
Ok, so they just call your 3-bet and now on the flop its uhh 3 7 10. Flop is uhh $6 for the sake of argument, you lead out with $4.50/$5, they raise you $15+ or all in off the bat, toss it. See above. People fairly SCREAM it at you, and you have to be deaf not to "hear" it. |
Not what i'm asking...Pf what do you reraise with?
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
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AA-TT and sometimes 99. AK, occasionally AQs. Air if I have a good read the raiser is a nit that will be able to lay down his AK unimproved.
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takesix
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07-08-2006, 08:57 PM
Post subject: Re: Position vs. pf raiser, what do you reraise with?
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#9 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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LIke I said... AA KK QQ JJ (to isolate), 1010 on frisky days, AKs, AQs, AKo.
If re-raised back pf unless its astronomical I'll call it and evaluate on the flop.
Unless you think the people just suck, there's no reason to go to the mat with QQ on a 7xx flop when they're repping AA/KK.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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typical fish/bad player range is only normally KK/AA which they will always get it in with.
Id argue enough passive fishies dont reraise with QQ because they are 'scared' lololol.
However, the preflop reraise appears to be one of the areas we discuss little of. To be honest at full ring because everyone is a 15/6 rock or wateva i tend to only reraise against weak players or those who will get it all in behind or arent a calling station with a medium pair.
AT 6max or for that matter when the stacks are deeper i reraise a larger number of hands that hold implied value if they hit versus a hand i dont expect my opponent to fold postflop. These inclue obv hands like TT/JJ but also 87s etc.
Other ploys obviously include reraising to isolate say when UTG opens for 4bbs and you find yourself in UTG+1 with QQ or perhaps even JJ. You want that pot HU so you reraise to isolate and if they push you can fold nice and easily having lost relativly little to what you can lose if you overplay post flop.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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btw, i hate calling reraises preflop with QQ. I may 3bet/fold or just fold if the implied odds arent there to take stacks.
Id find it diffciult to fold KK preflop without getting it all in before the flop unless im against a rock.
AA vs KK happens and im of the group that believes its unavoidable.
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Smoooth
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
AA vs KK happens and im of the group that believes its unavoidable.
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This is why KK is my most net LOSING hand. 
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Lukie
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07-09-2006, 05:03 AM
Post subject: Re: Position vs. pf raiser, what do you reraise with?
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#13 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
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QFT
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AvatarKava
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 464
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smoooth
This is why KK is my most net LOSING hand. |
I hope it's obvious to you that that shouldn't be the case.
If you have stats to back this up (and aren't just saying it because you've been cracked a lot recently), please post some hand histories on here so people can help you.
Not only should KK be profitable for you, it should be one of the MOST profitable.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
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QFT |
I admire you for giving a thoughtful, helpful response to such a vague, unanswerable question.
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Chicago_Kid
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...
Posts: 1,132
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AvatarKava
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smoooth
This is why KK is my most net LOSING hand. |
I hope it's obvious to you that that shouldn't be the case.
If you have stats to back this up (and aren't just saying it because you've been cracked a lot recently), please post some hand histories on here so people can help you.
Not only should KK be profitable for you, it should be one of the MOST profitable. |
It might be a loser over a small sample, but over even 10k hands, you should show a huge profit, unless you never lay them down when an A flops.
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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Smoooth
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
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Yeah, my sample is still pretty small. But last night I turned KK into barely profitable with a couple good pots. But this was always the kind of crap happening to me.
Did I play it wrong and give him too much money? Villian is 85/10 over 80 hands!
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP1 ($4.86)
MP2 =Villian ($2.82)
CO ($6.15)
Button ($10.45)
Hero ($3.75)
BB ($2.78)
UTG ($3.73)
UTG+1 ($3.24)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , K .
3 folds, MP2 =Villian raises to $0.2, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.5, MP2 =Villian raises to $1.8, CO folds, Hero calls $1.30.
Flop: ($3.80) A, T , 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.5, Villian raises to $1.02, Hero folds.
Final Pot: $5.32
Villian shows A, A.
Outcome: Villian wins $5.06. BB wins $0.26. [/color]
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Rockymv
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smoooth
Yeah, my sample is still pretty small. But last night I turned KK into barely profitable with a couple good pots. But this was always the kind of crap happening to me.
Did I play it wrong and give him too much money? Villian is 85/10 over 80 hands!
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP1 ($4.86)
MP2 =Villian ($2.82)
CO ($6.15)
Button ($10.45)
Hero ($3.75)
BB ($2.78)
UTG ($3.73)
UTG+1 ($3.24)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , K .
3 folds, MP2 =Villian raises to $0.2, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.5, MP2 =Villian raises to $1.8, CO folds, Hero calls $1.30.
Flop: ($3.80) A , T , 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.5, Villian raises to $1.02, Hero folds.
Final Pot: $5.32
Villian shows A , A .
Outcome: Villian wins $5.06. BB wins $0.26. [/color] |
Well, you played this pretty poorly.
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Smoooth
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rockymv
Well, you played this pretty poorly.
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Ok, what did I do wrong? Should I have given it up PF? I had to bet flop to make sure he wasn't on KK also or a lower pair. Am I wrong there?
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takesix
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smoooth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rockymv
Well, you played this pretty poorly.
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Ok, what did I do wrong? Should I have given it up PF? I had to bet flop to make sure he wasn't on KK also or a lower pair. Am I wrong there? |
I'd throw down 20 BBs and put him on "sarcasm".
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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I don't have a good grasp on this really either so I like the idea for a thread, but Strip, your question seems unanswerable the way you worded it. Maybe you want a list of situations (not cards) to reraise pre flop in? Without reads I think most people 3bet AK and QQ+ and sometimes TT/JJ. I don't reraise with much more until I know more about the player making the raise, but maybe I should be...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
AT 6max or for that matter when the stacks are deeper i reraise a larger number of hands that hold implied value if they hit versus a hand i dont expect my opponent to fold postflop. These inclue obv hands like TT/JJ but also 87s etc.
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Is this saying sort of what you're saying? I was thinking about this lately and want to see if this makes sense.
Reraise a wider range against a loose raiser who often folds to a reraise, or calls but will often check/fold the flop. Like they raise hands "1-40" but will only call/4bet hands 1-10 and check/fold hands 5-10, then reraise mostly pocket pairs and suited connectors, because even if they call deceptively with something they aren't folding post flop, you might hit the flop hard.
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