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JoschMH
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11-05-2007, 06:39 AM
Post subject: Position?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
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Well I’m not really a beginner but this is probably a beginner’s question and some beginner’s may find the answer handy… unless I’m the only one with the problem!
So with position… I know that early position is to act earlier in the hand and later position is to act later in the hand but where do the blinds come? After the flop has been dealt I know that the blinds are early in position but are they early in position preflop too; despite being last to act in that round of betting? Or are they late in position preflop and early in position after the flop?
I’ve been reading Harrington on Hold ‘em vol one and he really doesn’t make it clear. I don’t even know if he knows. He labels the seats in a 9 handed table 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 followed by the small blind and big blind. That tells me the blinds are in late positions.
Anyway thx in advance!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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As the money gets less deep, the blinds actually gain value over UTG because they get to act last pre-flop. Also, with a 3+ handed blind structure the BB having position over the SB is pretty huge. Particularly online. Lots of online players fold too often from the BB after a SB raise and will raise the SB, bet the flop and leave themselves OOP with just naked aggression.
Against tight multi-tables one of my favorite plays is to make a small 3 or 3.5x bb raise from the SB for insta-profit then give up on a lot of flops if called.
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JoschMH
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
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Hum… well thx but I don’t think it really answered my Q. The reason I asked is, in a lot of books or whatever people will talk about position preflop; for example – ‘Do this in early position preflop’ without specifying where exactly. It makes a big difference if blinds are considered late or early in position.
Am I to assume that early position is 1-2 or 1-3 and late position is 5-7 or 6-7? And that the blinds are a completely ball game and I should ignore them unless they’re specified in the statement? For example if the book says something like ‘Do this in early position’ I would ignore the blinds and assume that he means place 1 to 2/3 and if he said something like ‘Do this, especially on blinds’ I would then of course pay complete attention to the blinds.
I hope that made sense...
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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when people refer to being in position, what matters most is what position you will have after the flop.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Usually when talking pre-flop, people will refer to the blinds as "the blinds" or will include them in early position. The lateness of the blinds pre-flop does go some way to reducing their disadvantages, in that you get to see what everyone else does. But the vast bulk of the money in a big pot will be played post-flop, so referring to them holistically as anything other than early position is misleading.
So, by all means take the blinds' late position pre-flop into account, but remember that any time you play from the blinds post-flop, you'll be out of position. I don't think there's a better way of simplifying things.
(oh - no-one will EVER refer to the blinds as being "late position" even if it's pre-flop they're talking about, Late position is the button and the cut-off, period).
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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blinds are considered early position when regarding starting hand requirements. they are last to act pf (without straddles), but that is rarely an advantage because they act first every street thereafter.
assuming there are going to be 3 limpers in the hand, would you rather raise 67s from the bb? or the button? if you act last pre flop, why dont you want to raise with 67s?
maybe that can help you understand why the books assume the blinds as early position.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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