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deacon_bluez
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01-24-2008, 07:43 PM
Post subject: Poker Tracker-- definitive post?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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I'm at the stage where I am considering buying PT, but would like to know more about it. I mean I've read bits and pieces and seen many posts saying it is essential. But I am wondering if there is one post or thread on here that someone can point me to, where the poster(s) really would sell me on it. I am not talking about those who simply say "definitely get it," but rather those who can tell me why to get it: what the most useful features are and how this will help my play and BR. If someone wants to post in this thread, that's fine, but if you can point me to something, that's fine too. I'm guessing it's already been written somewhere.
I've been playing online for around 2 yrs., starting at $10NL FR and now working up to $25, where I've been for the last couple months, holding my own +/- a few buyins. I'm guessing it may be time for me to take the plunge with PT.
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
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jyms
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01-24-2008, 07:54 PM
Post subject: Re: Poker Tracker-- definitive post?
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#2 (permalink)
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez
I've been playing online for around 2 yrs., starting at $10NL FR and now working up to $25, where I've been for the last couple months, holding my own +/- a few buyins.
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Does this not tell you that not having it is costing you money. You haven't saved $55, you've lost Hundreds of dollars.
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Pythonic
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
Posts: 586
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PT does not give you better skills to your game. It enables you to know your stats to make sure you are playing how you want as well as other peoples' so you can exploit them for more money in certain hands.
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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PT is a must for self evalution and running a HUD which is extremely beneficial when multitabling. It also helps a lot with table selection. Very much worth the money in my opinion.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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I'm with the OP in that I'd love to see a post/article on PT and HUD.
Mainly because my 2 worst skills will be involved otherwise: the crappy online/product help guides and maths. The online help manuals are impossibel to navigate and far more difficult than a paper manual. And lots of maths makes my eyes gl;aze over and switch off.
Combine the two and that's a recipe for disaster, for me.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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advantages:
look at your positional stats, review hand histories from recent sessions and figure out leaks in your game.
See what hands might be losers that you are opening and could be dropped from your opening range.
be able to experiment with taking different lines and see the results statistically
track your opponents statistics so it is much easier to put them on ranges and predict their actions in certain situations
See how much you are really beating the game for
Disadvantages: none
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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On our site, I have a huge article and 2 videos showing PT and PaHud and what they do. The article details when and why you should get PT and the videos actually show you the worth of these two programs, how to use them and set them up. Unfortunately I can't link any of that here since it's not in the free area of the site. You just need to believe, even if PT allows you to make 1PTBB/100 more than you do now, it would pay for itself in about 25K hands at $10NL. There is no way it would only improve a $10NL player by 1PTBB/100
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thunder
I'm with the OP in that I'd love to see a post/article on PT and HUD.
Mainly because my 2 worst skills will be involved otherwise: the crappy online/product help guides and maths. The online help manuals are impossibel to navigate and far more difficult than a paper manual. And lots of maths makes my eyes gl;aze over and switch off.
Combine the two and that's a recipe for disaster, for me.
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this is something i have been trying to put together off and on for a long while. there are many "guides," some better than others.
i want to consolidate them into one article, but with parts. its damned near impossible!! PT is such a complex tool that you cant possibly explain every feature in a "guide."
but, i can tell you it is the best "tool" i have ever invested money in. BY FAR.
plenty of other players online are using it AGAINST you right now. and, some know what they are doing with it. you are at a disadvantage, imo, if you dont invest the money...and LEARN HOW TO USE IT.
for a multi-tabler, it is essential. it gives you a better/quicker starting point from which to base your reads. it is not a "cheat" or a "quick fix" tool, but an enhancement to, imo, combat the online timer that multi-tablers struggle to make decisions under.
go look at the stats we post with the screenshots of our numbers. they are in hundreds of threads around here. it is, if nothing else, the best way to look at how you have played recently as well as a year ago. you can watch your growth as a player, and playback hands step by step that you had trouble with LONG after you have forgotten them.
you wont be sorry. i CAN promise you that.
also, check out the many vids both here and at my other favorite site (see TrainerJym's avatar). you will see PT reviews at the end of most of them by TrainerJyms and BigSpenda.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Pokey's "How to use Pokertacker" on 2+2 is a great first step to analyzing your own play. If you've kept all your old HHs you can do all this analysis immediately after purchasing PT, just by uploading all your old HH.
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pythonic
PT does not give you better skills to your game. It enables you to know your stats to make sure you are playing how you want as well as other peoples' so you can exploit them for more money in certain hands.
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Wrong. Pt will accelerate your learning curve, probably 10fold. With PT and pokerstove, you can become a much better player within a month, in what I would guess could take a year without. I would guess that you have no clue how to use it to your full advantage.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kingnat
Pokey's "How to use Pokertacker" on 2+2 is a great first step to analyzing your own play. If you've kept all your old HHs you can do all this analysis immediately after purchasing PT, just by uploading all your old HH. |
that post is great. it is what finally convinced me that having was a necessity. check out the trial version, take a look at what it can do, and then wait until your bankroll can handle the hit before buying it. I don't think that you should risk moving down in stakes, or waiting a month to move up in stakes just to buy this program. others will probably disagree though.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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since we are posting from "outside FTR," heres another that will EXHAUST you with what you can do with PT.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/poker-tra...t3-page37.html
left hand margin. PT series articles I-V
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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allabout
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA USA
Posts: 276
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I've never used PT but I use Poker Office. You can get it for free!!! Go to there website. I can't say its just as good as PT cause I've never used PT but I can say PO is great, keeps track of everything they say tracker does I believe and has free HUD with it. Did I mention I got it for free? (No this is not a paid endorsement  ) Maybe someone who is famiar with both can say whether one is better than the other...
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JustMe
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7
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I haven't ever posted here and am a mediocre recreational player, but here's my 2 cents.
I initailly got poker tracker just because I had read so many posts on various forums that it was a MUST to get. At the time I didn't even have $50 any where online (but could afford it anyway) lol.
While I'm sure I still don't know how to use it to it's full potential, what I like about it is it lets me analyze my own play. What hands am I over playing/valuing? Where are my biggest leaks?
It also lets me keep a record of my wins/losses, and I go over almost every hand after a session to see how I could possibly do something different in future situations.
Anyway FWIW I do think it's worth it. Get the trial version first and see if you like it or not.
I've recently downloaded PAHud, using the 30 day trial period for free. I think this is another VERY usful tool that I will be investing in once the month is over.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
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I have Excession's PT series bookmarked, and reread it every couple months. Pokey's on 2+2 is another one I have read three times (see link above). While I hate to advertise for another forum, this is a link to a nice series of posts that include awesome autorate rules you can import into PT for both 6-max and FR along with posts and videos of PT/HUD in action. It's all free.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/forum/pok...cussion23.html
BTW, FTR is better than the other forum for most games and strategy. I have never posted over there, but I do scan it occasionally for good content.
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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NEW TOY! NEW TOY!
I finally took the plunge on both PT/PAHUD and have been playing around with them now for a couple of days. Still exploring it, but there are lots of good things there. I think I may have won a few hands that I would not have played the same way without HUD stats.
Chopper, thanks for the link to the bet-the-pot articles. I thought those were good as a way to get started with it. Anyone know of any others here or elsewhere?
Kind of strange to play in my weekly live home game this week. I never would have guessed it would seem harder to get reads live than online, but it's getting to be that way. Any word on when PT will come out with a B&M version?
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Sue me if I play too long....
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Jonny_MEMPHIS
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17
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If you play SNG's, Sharkscope is a good tool. It's a browser based program over the internet. Speaking of Sharkscope, does anyone know of a site/application that can track SNG's on Absolute Poker?
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<img></img>
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by allabout
Maybe someone who is famiar with both can say whether one is better than the other...
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Are they basically the same thing???
If they are, i'll get PO until i can afford PT.
Anyone?????
Is it a free trial or is it completely free????
Do i have to sign up to a poker room to get it??
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez
I finally took the plunge on both PT/PAHUD and have been playing around with them now for a couple of days. Still exploring it, but there are lots of good things there. I think I may have won a few hands that I would not have played the same way without HUD stats.
Kind of strange to play in my weekly live home game this week. I never would have guessed it would seem harder to get reads live than online, but it's getting to be that way. Any word on when PT will come out with a B&M version?
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LOL! Dependency.
This I believe is one of the main reasons why I've steered clear from HUDs and will forever continue to do so
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wesrman
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{interlude}
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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...
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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kookaburra
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02-12-2008, 05:04 PM
Post subject: Poker tracker w/HUD or Gametime+
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#24 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7
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I use PT at UB with a lot of success. On numerous hands, I use PT stats to determine my move, fold, call or raise.
I started using PokerAce HUD, at first, but have since switched to Gametime. I haven't found a way to keep stats updating automatically on the overlay with HUD. Gametime+ updates the stats with each import of hand histories, so every minute I'm seeing up to date stats on each player. Also, another feature of Gametime+ is that it will automatically request the last 100 hands at a table I sit down at. That gives me up to 100 hands on every player at the table, even if I haven't had stats on them before.
PT and Gametime+ help me pick my targets and play more intelligently than I could without it. It's a bankroll saver!
Kook
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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PT sounds great,
now who wants to lend me the $55 to get it??? <----- SARCASM
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Robb
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02-12-2008, 08:09 PM
Post subject: Re: Poker tracker w/HUD or Gametime+
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#26 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kookaburra
I use PT at UB with a lot of success. On numerous hands, I use PT stats to determine my move, fold, call or raise.
I started using PokerAce HUD, at first, but have since switched to Gametime. I haven't found a way to keep stats updating automatically on the overlay with HUD. Gametime+ updates the stats with each import of hand histories, so every minute I'm seeing up to date stats on each player. Also, another feature of Gametime+ is that it will automatically request the last 100 hands at a table I sit down at. That gives me up to 100 hands on every player at the table, even if I haven't had stats on them before.
PT and Gametime+ help me pick my targets and play more intelligently than I could without it. It's a bankroll saver!
Kook |
PA HUD will prefetch hands, too. PA HUD is left over from the days before UB let you download HH's to your drive. So the HUD works by dl'ing the HH's from the open HH window. Open a table. Click on history. Move the history window out of the way, and open PA HUD. Set the HUD to prefetch/dl HH's to the hard drive, and have PT get them from there.
It's easier than I just made it sound. There's a good tutorial on the PA HUD web site for each poker site it works with.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Just thought of this and came back to the thread.
PT3 is beta-testing right now. Full release is due out soon. I'm not using it right now because they are supporting just a couple of sites and working on their architecture. When Pat gets his new architecture working well on several sites, he's going to expand the beta-testing and then release PT3 for real. No word on pricing, yet, but current users will get a discount on the upgrade.
My point? Well, the definitive posts on PT will begin again once the online poker community gets hold of PT3.
If I were a noobie, I would wait to purchase until a full version of PT3 were available. Or, if you're playing a site that's supported, try the beta version.
PT3 looks very stylish, well laid out and has dozens of new filters, searches and screens. And speed. Pat's going away from the Microsoft Access database crap to something like SQL that actually works FAST.
Also, the PA HUD folks are working with Pat to get a new version of their HUD up and running. New options for stats and layouts.
Finally, there appear to be two bigtime competitors racing them, all angling for a piece of the poker HH database action, each with HUD's and various tools attached. RTS is one of them, and they make quality stuff.
I personally believe that what's happening right now, in early 2008, will dramatically change how we analyze our play, both after a session and during it. Hope I'm right.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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I really truly dislike the idea of "software giving people an edge during play"
Really truly abhor it
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
I really truly dislike the idea of "software giving people an edge during play"
Really truly abhor it
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There's a fine line. Most sites ban software that performs EV calculations and pot odds during the hand, but they allow HUD's that show only PAST hands. The former really is an illegal edge, at least in the poker community right now. The latter is just an accurate picture of how villain's have behaved in the past.
As investment brokers say, past returns is no guarantee of future results.
BTW, there are some interesting ways to "trick" opponents who use a HUD, the most obvious and soundest of which is to play positional poker, opening twice as many (or more) hands from LP/button than from EP/UTG. The HUD stats are for all positions. Another obvious way is to play two contrasting styles, one "loose" and one "tight." If you played each style 50% of the time, then 20/16 and 10/8 would average out to 15/12. When you were playing tight, the villains with HUD's would estimate a wider range than you're playing. When you were loose, they would give you too much credit. Since I play several styles that vary within those approximate ranges, depending upon the table, regs with HUD's may not have an accurate picture of how I'm playing NOW despite having thousands of hands worth of info about how I've played in the past.
Here's my bottom line: HUD's are here to stay, and if villain's are going to use them, I cough up EV by not using one myself, and doing it more and better than they are.
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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I have poker tracker now and want to use the player filters so it shows an icon beside the player (weather he is lagg, tagg etc).
The problem is i have no idea what vpip/pfr/$ won at showdown constitutes a tagg, lagg etc..lol
Can someone show me how i should have it set please???
Im playing $5NL.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks...
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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HUDs are mostly useful for fish and nit spotting. There isn't a huge amount that you can infer if someone has stats like 14/8/2 as opposed to 17/7/2.1. For that you need your table reads and your awareness of the hand.
What the HUD does for me is spot the guys who are playing 80% of the hands, but never raising, or the guy who has played 2 of the last 100 hands and just raised UTG.
It is not a substitute for reads, but it helps with identifying raise ranges etc.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wesrman
I have poker tracker now and want to use the player filters so it shows an icon beside the player (weather he is lagg, tagg etc).
The problem is i have no idea what vpip/pfr/$ won at showdown constitutes a tagg, lagg etc..lol
Can someone show me how i should have it set please???
Im playing $5NL.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks... |
The link below is to T-rod's set of autorate rules for 6-max. He links to Excession's autorate rules for FR. (Both NLH)
http://www.aggressivepokerplayer.com...ticle4082.html
Both guys used databases of 100k+ hands to identify the profiles of the biggest losers. Neither is perfect, but both are great to get started with. They work better than PT's original set of autoratings, and PT even posted them in their forums (at least Excession's).
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Thanks Robb
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
PT's original set of autoratings
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Sorry to keep bugging about it, but does this mean i can set it so it auto rates the players for me???
Would be much easier than doing them all myself.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, im half retarded..lol
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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It's not hard. Click on the "eagle" icon, about 2/3's of the way across the PT icon bar, to autorate players. You can import a set of rules from there, or create your own.
Next, check the "autorate" box on the hand history importer for your site, and then villains will be updated automatically each time PT refreshes.
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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Autorating is overrated, IMO. I generally just get my reads direct from the stats now.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by arborman
Autorating is overrated, IMO. I generally just get my reads direct from the stats now.
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Me, too, just for full disclosure. But I used the icons for a while. I think it helped begin classifying villains when I started out.
Now, I have color-coded HUD stats that turn green when I can attack and red when I need to think twice. And of course I inspect more closely for any difficult situations.
But I did use the autorate rules I linked to at the beginning.
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Jonny_MEMPHIS
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17
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HOw does PT work with BoDoG?
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<img></img>
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