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ArcadianRock
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05-11-2009, 10:10 PM
Post subject: Poker investment/staking?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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I've heard of staking for someone to do tournaments and stuff for a proceed of the profits but does this occur for cash games as well?
It seems like it would be a good idea for a stable player, invest in someone at a higher level than they can play and split the profits with them. Over the long run I think it could be profitable, but most likely this does already happen and I'm just wasting kilobytes.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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yeah it happens. Mike Caro anecdotally suggests that he was playing in a big money game fully rolled for himself, and he was very surprised to find out that several of the players had, had pieces purchased of them.
Here's my question tho.
If they are that good, why do they need staking
and if they have enough money, why would they want staking?
So it's probably pretty rare IMO that it would ever be +ev to stake a player. He wouldn't need it if he were good enough.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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See that's what I was thinking as well, however it is nice to be able to be good enough for 1000NL but only be staked for 200NL. If anything you would do it at the higher level and make enough so you could continue to play at that level.
Also, if you had extra money laying around not being used you could invest it in other players that beat the level they're at to make some extra income.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ArcadianRock
See that's what I was thinking as well, however it is nice to be able to be good enough for 1000NL but only be staked for 200NL. If anything you would do it at the higher level and make enough so you could continue to play at that level.
Also, if you had extra money laying around not being used you could invest it in other players that beat the level they're at to make some extra income.
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it only takes like a month to move up each stake
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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From memory Spoonitnow was staked by {someone on FTR}. Forget if he had to withdraw or what exactly, which brings up points for staking cash games:
- Good player had to withdraw for RL reasons. You know they have history of beating x level, just not the funds now, so its a pretty good investment.
- Good player underrolled. A lot of the high stakes guys who "take shots" at the super nosebleed levels have a proven history of beating tough games, but just dont have the roll to take that shot on their own.
- Umm, sure theres others.
I (if I had the money) wouldnt stake a winning 50nl player to play 200nl for instance, but I might stake a proven 100nl winner if they had to withdraw funds for some emergency and would otherwise have to drop down to 10nl to rebuild.
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Just playing to improve.
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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So perhaps as a backup plan like you guys said for RL situations. It is kind of cool though that with hard work it only takes a month and a half to move up.
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
it only takes like a month to move up each stake
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Been a while since I've read a dumb post by you.
*Edit* Maybe a bit mean, but how on Earth do you figure this?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
If they are that good, why do they need staking
and if they have enough money, why would they want staking?
So it's probably pretty rare IMO that it would ever be +ev to stake a player. He wouldn't need it if he were good enough.
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I could see a situation like:
Player A has been beating X NL, but isn't rolled to play (X + 1) NL. Player B sees a juicy (X + 1) NL game running, & knows that Player A is pretty solid.
Player B takes 1/2 his action on a shot at that table.
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[04:18] <+Bbickes> do u has teh agoraphobia?
[04:18] <+fat> im agressive yes
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Depends on your BRM requirements obviously, but lets say you use 20 buyins as your moveup point. So you start 50nl at $1k roll, and plan to start 100nl at $2k. If you can maintain 5ptbb/100 (10bbs/100) then thats a buyin every 1k hands, so after 20k hands you win 20 buyins and reach $2k.
Sounds easy in theory 
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Just playing to improve.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JinxT4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
it only takes like a month to move up each stake
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Been a while since I've read a dumb post by you.
*Edit* Maybe a bit mean, but how on Earth do you figure this? |
If you're a big winner at NL200, and say you had to withdraw all but $4,000 so you're only rolled for NL100:
using the bjsaust number of 10bb/100 we get a buyin every 1K hands
grind 60K hands and you're at NL200
this is why actually I tried to set 60K hands as a goal for this month, although I am failing spectacularly.
But say you're moving up from $1500 to $4000 so from NL50 to NL100
that's only 30K hands at 10bb/100, and I'm pretty sure 12bb/100 is possible so 25K hands at 12bb/100
now, even I can get 25K hands in a month
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Depends on your BRM requirements obviously, but lets say you use 20 buyins as your moveup point. So you start 50nl at $1k roll, and plan to start 100nl at $2k. If you can maintain 5ptbb/100 (10bbs/100) then thats a buyin every 1k hands, so after 20k hands you win 20 buyins and reach $2k.
Sounds easy in theory |
If I could maintain 5ptbb, I would never stop playing. :P
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[04:18] <+Bbickes> do u has teh agoraphobia?
[04:18] <+fat> im agressive yes
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I've always thought it should be maintainable at micro/small stakes.
I never have admittadly.
Thats 6-max of course. FR you can easy enough halve that but double the hands.
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Just playing to improve.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
From memory Spoonitnow was staked by {someone on FTR}.
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I recall a story of an FTR guy who, for whatever reason, needed a stake, and turned something like a hundred bucks from his girlfriend into $600k in less than year.
People need cash more than bankroll sometimes just 'cuz life is what is. Or people take breaks from poker. If they're proven winners at a certain game or level, lots of people are willing to stake them. Most of the stake stories I've seen on FTR appear to be friend to friend, and not really designed to make the staker much (if any) money. Just helping another guy out.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JinxT4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Depends on your BRM requirements obviously, but lets say you use 20 buyins as your moveup point. So you start 50nl at $1k roll, and plan to start 100nl at $2k. If you can maintain 5ptbb/100 (10bbs/100) then thats a buyin every 1k hands, so after 20k hands you win 20 buyins and reach $2k.
Sounds easy in theory |
If I could maintain 5ptbb, I would never stop playing. :P |
I'm probably going at that rate in 100NL 6m
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JinxT4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Depends on your BRM requirements obviously, but lets say you use 20 buyins as your moveup point. So you start 50nl at $1k roll, and plan to start 100nl at $2k. If you can maintain 5ptbb/100 (10bbs/100) then thats a buyin every 1k hands, so after 20k hands you win 20 buyins and reach $2k.
Sounds easy in theory |
If I could maintain 5ptbb, I would never stop playing. :P |
I'm probably going at that rate in 100NL 6m |
But haven't you been there more than a month? Or are you just not playin' enough hands to be rolled for 200nl, yet?
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AnTman_69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JinxT4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Depends on your BRM requirements obviously, but lets say you use 20 buyins as your moveup point. So you start 50nl at $1k roll, and plan to start 100nl at $2k. If you can maintain 5ptbb/100 (10bbs/100) then thats a buyin every 1k hands, so after 20k hands you win 20 buyins and reach $2k.
Sounds easy in theory |
If I could maintain 5ptbb, I would never stop playing. :P |
I'm probably going at that rate in 100NL 6m |
Over a super small sample yes?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AnTman_69
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JinxT4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Depends on your BRM requirements obviously, but lets say you use 20 buyins as your moveup point. So you start 50nl at $1k roll, and plan to start 100nl at $2k. If you can maintain 5ptbb/100 (10bbs/100) then thats a buyin every 1k hands, so after 20k hands you win 20 buyins and reach $2k.
Sounds easy in theory |
If I could maintain 5ptbb, I would never stop playing. :P |
I'm probably going at that rate in 100NL 6m |
Over a super small sample yes? |
11 buyins over 9000 hands
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