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Schya
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03-02-2009, 10:36 PM
Post subject: Which poker book to get first
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Holdem poker for advanced players? or No Limit holdem theory and practice?
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
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T&P
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Ty stacks my good sir
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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"The Theory of Poker" is the best book on poker to read first in my opinion. "No Limit Theory and Practice" and "Professional No Limit" are excellent books to be read not once, but often, but are also relatively advanced and not one of the first poker books most players would want to read.
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- Jason
 
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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I'll be reading ToP next week. I tried reading it once a while back, but it was in e-book form, and I couldn't stand it. And on top of that, I had absolutely no interest in learning anything except about NLHE. Basically I didn't understand the point of the book and the importance of theory. I wanted to learn how to play NLHE, and what actions to take when, not how to think. I won't make that mistake again. Really looking forward to reading/studying ToP, PNL, and Mathematics of Poker next week.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Yeah, Theory of Poker is a definite candidate for a first read. And I haven't read that many other ones so feel free to correct me, but Super System was the first book I read and I thought it was pretty insightful as long as you know the basic basics.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I guess you're playing NL
Theory of Poker is a must-read, no matter what game you play. After that you'd be better off using most poker books as kindling.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I guess you're playing NL
Theory of Poker is a must-read, no matter what game you play. After that you'd be better off using most poker books as kindling. |
o rly?It's ok, I'm bringing it back!
This is so out of line... this is like bluff 3betting a guy who runs 50/2/.3/1k
First off, ToP is the bible. We can all agree about that. But HoH for tourney players? PNL or T&P for cash players?
Why would you post this in a beginner's poker forum? That statement is just leading people in the wrong direction. ToP is a tough book to get thru, give the guys a break FFS.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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Um...I think Harrington on Holdem and Sklansky would be a good choice as well. Most poker books say the same thing anyway. I would get one book for MTT and one for Cash as SnG really only change when you get down to Push/Fold and then just get SnG Wizard to train yourself on that.
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Just picked up ToP after im done with it i plan on getting Theory and Practice. Then after that PNL then read the 3 again ^_^
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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Yes, reread, that's what a lot of poker players miss out on is the fact that once they read it once they think they are done. But certain things may not have applied to you the first time so the 2nd time through they pick up those things.
Also I had the problem of plugging a leak only to make a new one just because I forgot about it so I would read them many times over maybe once every month or so before you get the full value out of them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ArcadianRock
Um...I think Harrington on Holdem and Sklansky would be a good choice as well. Most poker books say the same thing anyway. I would get one book for MTT and one for Cash as SnG really only change when you get down to Push/Fold and then just get SnG Wizard to train yourself on that. |
Not really because even at 20 big blinds in your stack, you'll be willing to play for stacks with AQ preflop
probably not for 100 big blinds, though
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
Just picked up ToP after im done with it i plan on getting Theory and Practice. Then after that PNL then read the 3 again ^_^ |
I'm gonna start reading ToP too so if you wanna discuss some things, feel free to PM me!
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by xpaand
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schya
Just picked up ToP after im done with it i plan on getting Theory and Practice. Then after that PNL then read the 3 again ^_^ |
I'm gonna start reading ToP too so if you wanna discuss some things, feel free to PM me! |
Will do man, feel free to do the same.
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okiman
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 171
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The Theory of Poker is the best place to start and is good regardless of what you play. For NLHE, both No Limit Theory and Practice and Professional No Limit Hold 'Em are good. Theory and Practice being a good overview and Professional No Limit Hold 'Em having a very good section on Stack to Pot Ratios.
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JoeHaw
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 186
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What's all of your views on the Little Green Book and the Little Blue Book by Gordon? I bought the Audio Green Book and was thinking of picking up the Little Blue one or Gus Hansons book.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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I think the Little Green Book is a fine read. It's probably in the camp of good first books to read as in it's not as complicated as "No Limit Theory and Practice" or "Professional No Limit", but that's not to say it's ABC easy either or that the information is basic or should be overlooked. Phil has some very sound and specific advice, but it's more from a "This is how I play" point of view rather than "This is the theory and how you should think" point of view. It's a fun, easy read and great way to jump in with both feet. As No Limit goes, I'd probably recommend it 2nd after the Theory of Poker because it sets up nicely. Don't get me wrong, though, "No Limit Theory and Practice" or "Professional No Limit" are currently the gold standard as no limit goes for the serious player in my opinion, but it helps to have played a while I think before delving into those.
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- Jason
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jjbish
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 84
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ToP definately, then after awhile of playing I'd say NLHT&P. Becuase you will understand it better if you have a basis to look at it and be able to filter what applies to what. I'd maybe even read Fees ebook before this and then reread both in succession again.
PNL. Not a fan of in general. Not bad, but nothing great to me. Once your understand STP ratios the book loses me.
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NH, WP, GG, TY, Etc..........................
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HeAVyB101
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 93
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Here is a great link to reviews on almost every poker book out there. It is a personal oppinion review but it is very informative. check it out
http://cardsharp.org/category/book-reviews/
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________________________________
Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
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loonychune
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 145
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Quote:
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I won't make that mistake again. Really looking forward to reading/studying ToP, PNL, and Mathematics of Poker next week.
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Mathematics of Poker 
A chapter by chapter thread discussing the applicability of concepts you meet after the first couple of introductory chapters?
I remember seeing a group reading thread started when I first joined here but I guess people lose interest?
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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So how far are you into ToP schya?
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Well just picked it up, so far im at chapter 3. Just finished chapter 2 as we speak haha.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Same! I won't be able to get past Chapter 3 until tomorrow though cause I have school tonight 
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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Im sitting at 4 2NL tables while the fiance reads her book. More than likely i'll read some after a bit.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I guess you're playing NL
Theory of Poker is a must-read, no matter what game you play. After that you'd be better off using most poker books as kindling. |
I am a student of this school of thought as well.
It took me a year to unlearn a lot of the crap I learned in the HoH series. They are great for turning a beginner into a marginally losing player, but sngs/tournies are full of people treating HoH like the bible and handing the good players chip after chip after chip after.. you get the idea. For tournies I think Poker Tournament Formula is the best thing out there.
For cash I am really enjoying Professional NL (the current book club book) although I think some of it is inaccurate. I learn more from watching FTR videos and studying my own HHs.
Other than that.. for ring I also hear Theory of Poker is decent.. but haven't read it yet. I saw it in the book store but it looked like a lot of mathematical mumbo jumbo and sample hands.. which really don't help me much.
O
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Question for those avid readers out there:
Which slansky book is best?
And would it be better to read that, or Professional No Limit Hold'em instead if a choice betweent the two had to be made?
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Question for those avid readers out there:
Which slansky book is best?
And would it be better to read that, or Professional No Limit Hold'em instead if a choice betweent the two had to be made?
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Let me reiterate this thread for you:
ToP, ToP, ToP, some other books, ToP, ToP, ToP.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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HeAVyB101
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 93
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I guess you're playing NL
Theory of Poker is a must-read, no matter what game you play. After that you'd be better off using most poker books as kindling. |
I am a student of this school of thought as well.
It took me a year to unlearn a lot of the crap I learned in the HoH series. They are great for turning a beginner into a marginally losing player, but sngs/tournies are full of people treating HoH like the bible and handing the good players chip after chip after chip after.. you get the idea. For tournies I think Poker Tournament Formula is the best thing out there. |
I have read all of the HOH books. Excellent books I must say but definitely not intended for ring games. That is why Harrington came out with HoCG (Harrington on Cash Games) which I just picked up yesterday. I'm only on the 2nd chapter but it seems great so far. The style is set up the same as his tourny books. He goes over a concept then gives a few real life examples. If you are thinking of getting this book I recommend you read the HOH series first because many of his ideas are based off that series. He compares it to HOH and then shows you how his cash game differs. Harrington is a great player and I think ALL of his books are a must read.
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________________________________
Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HeAVyB101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I guess you're playing NL
Theory of Poker is a must-read, no matter what game you play. After that you'd be better off using most poker books as kindling. |
I am a student of this school of thought as well.
It took me a year to unlearn a lot of the crap I learned in the HoH series. They are great for turning a beginner into a marginally losing player, but sngs/tournies are full of people treating HoH like the bible and handing the good players chip after chip after chip after.. you get the idea. For tournies I think Poker Tournament Formula is the best thing out there. |
I have read all of the HOH books. Excellent books I must say but definitely not intended for ring games. That is why Harrington came out with HoCG (Harrington on Cash Games) which I just picked up yesterday. I'm only on the 2nd chapter but it seems great so far. The style is set up the same as his tourny books. He goes over a concept then gives a few real life examples. If you are thinking of getting this book I recommend you read the HOH series first because many of his ideas are based off that series. He compares it to HOH and then shows you how his cash game differs. Harrington is a great player and I think ALL of his books are a must read. |
I was going to purchase that book but I saw a few negative reviews on it. I haven't read HOH though. Please let me know what you think of HoCG. I'm in the process of reading Theory of Poker.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Question for those avid readers out there:
Which slansky book is best?
And would it be better to read that, or Professional No Limit Hold'em instead if a choice betweent the two had to be made?
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Let me reiterate this thread for you:
ToP, ToP, ToP, some other books, ToP, ToP, ToP. |
lol so in other words:
ToP > all other poker books ever written. Correct?
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Meh, Theory of Poker IS a great book and should be required reading for all poker players, but eventually we have to branch out to the specifics of the game or games we like whether it's cash, tournaments or no limit, limit, Omaha, stud, or whatever. There's also branches of psychology and mindset, so there will never be one book to end all other books. But, most agree Theory of Poker is the best place to start.
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- Jason
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Anyone find Harrington on Cash Games to be a must read?
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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feelwell
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: china
Posts: 1
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Improve Your Poker, written by Nick Christenson. I flick through it whenever I have a chance. For I can calm down and think through my last round and check which part went wrong. I do IMPROVE.
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lucilla118
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
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Wow, so many wonderful poker books! I will pick some for sharpening my poker skills.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lucilla118
Wow, so many wonderful poker books! I will pick some for sharpening my poker skills.
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i can post
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lucilla118
Wow, so many wonderful poker books! I will pick some for sharpening my poker skills.
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i can post |
NO WAY! ME TOO! 
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Schya
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 129
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finished chapter 3 today xpaand ^_^ yourself?
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lucilla118
Wow, so many wonderful poker books! I will pick some for sharpening my poker skills.
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Harrington on Freerolls is soon to be released . Its gonna be a cracker and well worth looking out for.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keith_MM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lucilla118
Wow, so many wonderful poker books! I will pick some for sharpening my poker skills.
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Harrington on Freerolls is soon to be released . Its gonna be a cracker and well worth looking out for. |
lol'd
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HeAVyB101
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 93
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I loved the HOH series so I don't see why HoCG should be any worse. It's set up the exact same as the HOH series with examples and what not. So far the book is good but i haven't read deep into the book so I can't give any solid feedback. I will definitely post my oppinion on the forum once I finish it.
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Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
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