Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

pocket pair problems!

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
storm75m
Old 03-21-2005, 09:07 PM     Post subject: pocket pair problems! #1 (permalink)  
storm75m's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
storm75m is an unknown quantity at this point
 Alright, I found a big leak in my game, and I think I'm playing my pocket pairs all messed up. My trouble is, I have a problem letting them go. I think I also have an aggression problem, and I usually keep betting until someone tells me to stop by re-raising. By the way, I'm playing the 25NL games on PP, where people call and limp with anything...

Here is my strategy...

Before the flop in an unraised pot, I usually raise any pocket pair (including 22) to about 2 bucks (usually a standard raise at these limits), hopefully to chase out other garbage hands and slim the field. *This may be my problem, cause I read you're supposed to limp with these hands and hope to hit a set* If the pot was raised before me, I just call the raise.

(In this post I'm assuming that I led the betting before the flop, and am first to act after the flop... having position makes playing pairs a little easier)

After the flop, even if I miss or the board is all overcards, I throw out another bet of about 2/3 the pot. Opponents don't know what cards to put you on, so they may think that you had overcards yourself and hit on the flop. So about 60% of the time everyone folds and I take it down. Now if I miss the flop and get reraised, it's an easy laydown, but I think my problem comes in if someone just calls my bet. What should I do on the turn? Do I just check to the person that called me and give up control of the hand? Do I continue to bet (but maybe smaller)? What if I have 99, and the board is 35J with only one over card (that isn't really that high) do I asume that he has a J and let the hand go? Sometimes I will continue to throw out bets until the river where they finally fold, but I get burned when I'm called down and my puny little pairs are busted.

(If I hit the set, the strategy is easy since I probably have the best hand and all I need to do is figure out the way to extract the most money... Make marginal bets at calling stations, slow play aggressive maniacs, etc. Of course the strategy changes if the board has a potential straight or flush)

Any advice would be much appreciated...
Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Alibi
Old 03-21-2005, 09:22 PM #2 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Paul or DC
Posts: 449
Alibi is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Alibi
I am also a fairly inexperienced player, so I won't give advice where I don't know whawt I'm talking about. However, I do know it's a good idea to limp 22-88. 88 you can raise if you feel comfortable, and 99 is usually a good raise.
TrapperAB: you know, I really should have named myself after the mandibles of a homeless person
 
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 03-21-2005, 09:30 PM #3 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
No set, no bet works fine.

I'll limp/call with pocket pairs.

If I have TT UTG, I'll limp. Get's raised by the CO, I'll call.

Flop comes J45, I'll put out a feeler bet of 2/3rds to the pot size. (My feelers are strong.) So messing with me ain't no thang.

I'll also check-raise with pocket pairs on weak boards into raised pots.

I'll raise if I'm in late position and there are some limpers. just becuase I like to raise limpers when I have decent holdings.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
storm75m
Old 03-21-2005, 09:43 PM #4 (permalink)  
storm75m's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
storm75m is an unknown quantity at this point
 good tips, thanks. I think I already know what my problem is... I overvalue the low pairs too much. However I like to put out the strong feelers as well, I just need to let it go if I get any kind of resistance.
Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
 
Reply With Quote
dalecooper
Old 03-21-2005, 09:50 PM #5 (permalink)  
dalecooper's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
dalecooper
General rules of thumb that are hard to get in much trouble with:

- raise an unraised pot with jacks or better from all seats; add tens and nines in late position

- limp all other pocket pairs from all seats

- call raises (pre-flop) with any pocket pair, as long as there's enough money in play that you'll get paid off when you make a set; i.e. calling a 5xBB raise with deuces is fine if the raiser has 20 times that much in his stack left

- look to hit a set first and foremost; the lower the pair, the more important it is to hit a set. lower than pocket 7s, there's no reason to bet unless you made trips

- If you didn't hit the set but there are no overcards, bet cautiously; you have probably the best hand, but it's as vulnerable as any top pair. That is, two pair still beats you, higher pocket pairs still beat you, etc. Be willing to let it go. If there's one overcard I'd limit myself to one feeler bet and then go completely passive if they stay in the hand.

Basically it seems to me like you are raising too much pre-flop with pairs... they can make more money if you keep more people in and hit a set or boat against the right second best hands. Ideally you'd rather call a modest raise, because the other player is the aggressor and may be more likely to throw their entire stack in the pot, regardless of how much strength you show later.
Reply With Quote
dalecooper
Old 03-21-2005, 09:52 PM #6 (permalink)  
dalecooper's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
dalecooper
By the way, there are all sorts of variations on those quick & dirty rules that are perfectly fine play, but I think that's the easiest way to approach it, especially if you're feeling a little gunshy from taking some losses on those hands.
Reply With Quote
storm75m
Old 03-21-2005, 10:01 PM #7 (permalink)  
storm75m's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
storm75m is an unknown quantity at this point
 i guess i'm being counter productive by raising preflop to push others out... I guess winning a big pot with more people is better than winning a small one against one opponent. Is the strategy a little different when playing in tournaments and the blinds are bigger? (opportunity to steal...)
Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
 
Reply With Quote
JeffreyGB
Old 03-22-2005, 01:43 AM #8 (permalink)  
JeffreyGB's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm75m
i guess i'm being counter productive by raising preflop to push others out... I guess winning a big pot with more people is better than winning a small one against one opponent. Is the strategy a little different when playing in tournaments and the blinds are bigger? (opportunity to steal...)
Yes. In tournaments once the blinds are large enough to be worth stealing (generally to me this is about the time antes start being taken), raising on the chance to steal but having a decent hand to back it up with is always* a good play.

- Jeffrey

*Grain of salt principle applies here. There is no such thing as always.
I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
 
Reply With Quote
EasyT
Old 03-22-2005, 10:00 PM #9 (permalink)  
EasyT's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
EasyT is on a distinguished road
 Bonus Question:

When you hit the set with a low pocket pairs, how do you procede? Bet the pot and see who has something? Check to the pre-flop raiser? Push right there? Do you think pushing will get more money in the pot (on average) than multiple pot-sized bets?

I know that there are a million other factors, but I'd love to hear a scenario or two.

Does it make a difference if there are only 1 or 2 people in it with you rather than 3 or 4?
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 03-22-2005, 10:18 PM #10 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyT
Bonus Question:

When you hit the set with a low pocket pairs, how do you procede? Bet the pot and see who has something? Check to the pre-flop raiser? Push right there? Do you think pushing will get more money in the pot (on average) than multiple pot-sized bets?

I know that there are a million other factors, but I'd love to hear a scenario or two.

Does it make a difference if there are only 1 or 2 people in it with you rather than 3 or 4?
Unraised pot: Multi-ways: Out of position: Uncoordinated board: Check-raise, lead turn.
Unraised pot: Multi-ways: In position: Uncoordinated board: Overbet/bet/check 10/60/30

dot dot dot.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-23-2005, 02:25 AM #11 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
why would u bet pot with a set? if i have a set and the board is uncordianted


say 3/3 and theres another 3/4 limpres in the pot imma put out a 1/4-1/3 pot size bet to get more money into the pot..Object of poker is to draw as much money into the pot with ya hand if u got the nuts..


Now if a flush draw or open ended flop comes off, imma bet it harder yeah there 2/3 pot to pot size bet, maybe even a little over it...


but in a 10 ring i usually throw away small pocket pairs 6 and under, what am i gonna do if i get reraised i wasting money..now if blinds are big i might raise with it but thats really risky

Botttom line

Low pps suck i treat em like a-x suited, like hoes they should be discarded unless 3/4 limp dicks are in the pot... :P
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
thestrokes
Old 03-23-2005, 02:32 AM #12 (permalink)  
thestrokes's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 119
thestrokes
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
why would u bet pot with a set? if i have a set and the board is uncordianted


say 3/3 and theres another 3/4 limpres in the pot imma put out a 1/4-1/3 pot size bet to get more money into the pot..Object of poker is to draw as much money into the pot with ya hand if u got the nuts..


Now if a flush draw or open ended flop comes off, imma bet it harder yeah there 2/3 pot to pot size bet, maybe even a little over it...


but in a 10 ring i usually throw away small pocket pairs 6 and under, what am i gonna do if i get reraised i wasting money..now if blinds are big i might raise with it but thats really risky

Botttom line

Low pps suck i treat em like a-x suited, like hoes they should be discarded unless 3/4 limp dicks are in the pot... :P
I think it may be too disguise your hand against stronger players. If you bet it like you would TP the guy with TPTK or two pair is going to hand you some money. Also to protect ffrom draws?

Why would you throw away pocket pairs? You should always call if you and your opponent have 10 times the amount of the raise. You can call a 20times the big blind raise if you both got 200 times the big blind. (This number may be a little screwy since your not going to get all in everytime you have a set, so 12 times might be better) When you hit your set that 12% your going to make money back and more you lost calling raises, especially if you disguise your hand so well like explained in other posts. [/i]
"Confidence not overconfidence"
-radashack
 
Reply With Quote
JeffreyGB
Old 03-23-2005, 02:32 AM #13 (permalink)  
JeffreyGB's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Low pps suck i treat em like a-x suited, like hoes they should be discarded unless 3/4 limp dicks are in the pot... :P
No. This is wrong.

Call raises up to 1/10th of the smaller of yours and the raiser's stack. Then use good postflop play (I usually like a check-push, but I vary as needed with pot and 1/2 pot bets) to double up.
I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
 
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 03-23-2005, 02:51 AM #14 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Always look for implied odds when you've got a low pp.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-23-2005, 02:56 AM #15 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Low pps suck i treat em like a-x suited, like hoes they should be discarded unless 3/4 limp dicks are in the pot... :P
No. This is wrong.

Call raises up to 1/10th of the smaller of yours and the raiser's stack. Then use good postflop play (I usually like a check-push, but I vary as needed with pot and 1/2 pot bets) to double up.


NO way especially early on im gonna throw them out i dont like em esp from early position in late ill probably limp. I really dont like calling raises with low pps unless i got a big chip stack..



O ya one more point say u do play them early and u get raised what r u gonna do clearly ur gonna throw it away..
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 03-23-2005, 03:00 AM #16 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Low pps suck i treat em like a-x suited, like hoes they should be discarded unless 3/4 limp dicks are in the pot... :P
No. This is wrong.

Call raises up to 1/10th of the smaller of yours and the raiser's stack. Then use good postflop play (I usually like a check-push, but I vary as needed with pot and 1/2 pot bets) to double up.


NO way especially early on im gonna throw them out i dont like em esp from early position in late ill probably limp. I really dont like calling raises with low pps unless i got a big chip stack..



O ya one more point say u do play them early and u get raised what r u gonna do clearly ur gonna throw it away..
In the new deep stack cash games, you should always call raises with pp that represent less than 1/10th of your stack.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-23-2005, 03:03 AM #17 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
Yeah in a ring , talking about SNG tournies also..


In ring yeah ill call raises with em and raise with em if there 7 above, but 2 and below limp and call small raises
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
Greedo017
Old 03-23-2005, 03:28 AM #18 (permalink)  
Greedo017's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
Greedo017 is on a distinguished road
 could just be me, but i don't really see how it would be any different in an sng or mtt. i'd limp 22 in an sng in the same situations i'd limp it in a ring game.

and as far as getting raised with them. i prefer to be calling 4-5xBB bets preflop rather than be among 3-4 limpers. 3-4 limpers aren't as likely to pay me off as the one guy with aces.
Reply With Quote
JeffreyGB
Old 03-23-2005, 03:29 AM #19 (permalink)  
JeffreyGB's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
O ya one more point say u do play them early and u get raised what r u gonna do clearly ur gonna throw it away..
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
Call raises up to 1/10th of the smaller of yours and the raiser's stack.
I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
 
Reply With Quote
JeffreyGB
Old 03-23-2005, 03:32 AM #20 (permalink)  
JeffreyGB's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
JeffreyGB
Hand #4795392-6 at SnG-0038h (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)

rdmnweeep is at seat 0 with 955.
Aunt B is at seat 1 with 1020.
calbilly is at seat 2 with 810.
TheAficianado is at seat 3 with 1180.
1JackOff327 is at seat 4 with 1000.
GACpimp is at seat 5 with 1020.
JGB146 is at seat 6 with 985.
ElCaminoNut is at seat 7 with 975.
gmeyomonay is at seat 8 with 1090.
Draugik is at seat 9 with 965.
The button is at seat 0.

Aunt B posts the small blind of 5.
calbilly posts the big blind of 10.

JGB146: 4s 4c

Pre-flop:
TheAficianado folds. 1JackOff327 folds. GACpimp
folds. JGB146 calls. ElCaminoNut folds.
gmeyomonay folds. Draugik raises to 20. rdmnweeep
calls. Aunt B calls. calbilly calls. JGB146
calls.

Flop (board: 9h 4h 9c):
Aunt B checks. calbilly checks. JGB146 bets 50.
Draugik folds. rdmnweeep folds. Aunt B raises to
250. calbilly folds. JGB146 re-raises to 450.
Aunt B goes all-in for 1000. JGB146 goes all-in for
965. Aunt B is returned 35 (uncalled).

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:
Aunt B shows 9s 8h.
JGB146 shows 4s 4c.

Turn (board: 9h 4h 9c 6d):
(no action in this round)

River (board: 9h 4h 9c 6d 3s):
(no action in this round)

Showdown:
Aunt B has 9s 8h 9h 9c 6d: three nines.
JGB146 has 4s 4c 9h 4h 9c: full house, fours full of nines.

Hand #4795392-6 Summary:
JGB146 wins 2030 with full house, fours full of nines.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-23-2005, 03:34 AM #21 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
wow ya showed a hand winning nice, u should see my 5/9 win one time when i called a raise..


7 1/2 to 1 odds it aint gonna hit, 88%, ill throw mine away thanks
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
JeffreyGB
Old 03-23-2005, 03:36 AM #22 (permalink)  
JeffreyGB's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
JeffreyGB
Hand #4981339-18 at Sat1020pmA-080 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)

JGB146 is at seat 0 with 2075.
EmoTiger is at seat 1 with 1930.
Puff505 is at seat 2 with 595.
rasclhnrytoto is at seat 3 with 2895.
Taximan is at seat 4 with 1410.
SteveO928 is at seat 5 with 1950.
poondogg is at seat 6 with 5460.
paul love is at seat 7 with 1105.
gnb701 is at seat 8 with 830.
webjamm is at seat 9 with 1230.
The button is at seat 0.

EmoTiger posts the small blind of 10.
Puff505 posts the big blind of 20.

JGB146: 4s 4h

Pre-flop:
rasclhnrytoto folds. Taximan calls. SteveO928
folds. poondogg folds. paul love folds. gnb701
folds. webjamm calls. JGB146 calls. EmoTiger
folds. Puff505 checks.

Flop (board: Js 4c 5d):
Puff505 goes all-in for 575. Taximan folds. webjamm calls. JGB146 goes all-in for 2055. webjamm goes all-in for 1210. JGB146 is returned 845 (uncalled).

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:
JGB146 shows 4s 4h.
Puff505 shows Jd 6c.
webjamm shows 5h Jh

Turn (board: Js 4c 5d 7c):
(no action in this round)

River (board: Js 4c 5d 7c 4d):
(no action in this round)

Showdown:
JGB146 has 4s 4h Js 4c 4d: four fours.
Puff505 has Jd Js 4c 7c 4d: two pair, jacks and fours.
webjamm has 5h Jh Js 5d 7c: two pair, jacks and fives.

Hand #4981339-18 Summary:
JGB146 wins the main pot 1815 with four fours.
JGB146 wins the side pot 1270 with four fours.
I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
 
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 03-23-2005, 03:38 AM #23 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
Low pocket pairs are massivly profitable in cash no limit games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-23-2005, 03:40 AM #24 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
Nice bro still wont change my opinion all good though
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
JeffreyGB
Old 03-23-2005, 03:41 AM #25 (permalink)  
JeffreyGB's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
7 1/2 to 1 odds it aint gonna hit, 88%, ill throw mine away thanks
That's why the 1/10th stack rule. You lose 10% or less the 88% of the time you miss. You make 100% or more the 12% of the time you hit.

Long term (10k hands with average stack of 1000):
lose 100 * .88 * 10k = 88,000
win 1000 * .12 * 10k = 120,000

Calling the preflop bet of 1/10th your stack nets you over 30,000 chips. Even better results if the raise is less than 1/10th your stack.

It's easy to get rid of the hand if the flop misses you. Sometimes it'll miss your opponent too, giving you the better hand even in the 88%. Here your hit % can rise to 20% if you get to see the river, making this even more profitable.

- Jeffrey
I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
 
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 03-23-2005, 03:42 AM #26 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=83

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Nice bro still wont change my opinion all good though
"Don't confuse me with the facts, I'm playing poker here."

Good for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-23-2005, 03:53 AM #27 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
Oh okay "im just playing poker here" So i guess early in tourney i should call a raise with if its 10 percent of my stack sure, ok pocket pairs next 2 outta 20 hands, Damn im down to 450..Wait its ok cuz ill win 100% of my stack if i hit it 1 outta 8 times..

done with the convo good luck with ur pp
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 03-23-2005, 03:56 AM #28 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
Tournies are funny because you may want to pass up on a marginal +EV situation to save chips. However, at the 5% mark you would be crazy to fold. Also, consider that it can be easier to stack someone in a tourney if they raised pre-flop as these guys often play very aggro post-flop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 03-23-2005, 03:58 AM #29 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Oh okay "im just playing poker here" So i guess early in tourney i should call a raise with if its 10 percent of my stack sure, ok pocket pairs next 2 outta 20 hands, Damn im down to 450..Wait its ok cuz ill win 100% of my stack if i hit it 1 outta 8 times..

done with the convo good luck with ur pp
Your point and Fnord's point arn't the same.

In a tourny where chip conservation is a factor, calling off a tenth of your stack chasing a 1 in 10 flop would be a bad idea, but calling closer to 5 isn't.

In a cash game, I'll call up to ten since I don't have to worry about my stack after that hand.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
JeffreyGB
Old 03-23-2005, 04:01 AM #30 (permalink)  
JeffreyGB's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Oh okay "im just playing poker here" So i guess early in tourney i should call a raise with if its 10 percent of my stack sure, ok pocket pairs next 2 outta 20 hands, Damn im down to 450..Wait its ok cuz ill win 100% of my stack if i hit it 1 outta 8 times..

done with the convo good luck with ur pp
How the hell can calling two 150 raises take you from 1500 to 450 (or two 100 raises take you from 1000 to 450)?

Do you fold a flush draw to a min bet on the flop as well?
I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
 
Reply With Quote
Laeelin
Old 03-23-2005, 04:01 AM #31 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
Laeelin
As already said, all pocket pairs are super profitable.

A pp is going to hit a set more than 10% of the time.

Sets are just so profitable.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-23-2005, 04:13 AM #32 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
That dont mean u call raises with them preflop in a SNG tourney, ring yes...

12% is not that much LOL
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 03-23-2005, 04:50 AM #33 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
Quote:
10 best hands

a/a k/k q/q a/k j/j 10/10 9/9 a/q 8/8 7/7
What's AQ doing in there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
Sykedupp
Old 03-23-2005, 07:17 AM #34 (permalink)  
Sykedupp's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 550
Sykedupp
Send a message via MSN to Sykedupp Send a message via Yahoo to Sykedupp
man rip your missing out on huge money-making potential, I dont know why you wouldnt listen to fnord, 'rilla, and all them other big money makers... but its your choice, you just leave the fish more money for us to take :P

-CHris
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupie
That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.
 
Reply With Quote
UG
Old 03-23-2005, 01:18 PM #35 (permalink)  
UG's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
UG is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to UG
This thread is almost.....comical.


"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."


 
Reply With Quote
LockLow34
Old 03-23-2005, 06:22 PM #36 (permalink)  
LockLow34's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 266
LockLow34
Send a message via Yahoo to LockLow34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
7 1/2 to 1 odds it aint gonna hit, 88%, ill throw mine away thanks
I don't mean to be harsh here, but do you understand the mathematics of poker?

If you've got $100 holding 77 and he's got $100 holding AA and his reraise is to $10, you're getting implied odds of 10-1 on a 7.5-1 shot of hitting your set. That's a HUGE ($25) overlay that makes your call there pure profit.
"How deep is the money?" - Fnord
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-24-2005, 12:02 AM #37 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
Quote:
Originally Posted by LockLow34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
7 1/2 to 1 odds it aint gonna hit, 88%, ill throw mine away thanks
I don't mean to be harsh here, but do you understand the mathematics of poker?

If you've got $100 holding 77 and he's got $100 holding AA and his reraise is to $10, you're getting implied odds of 10-1 on a 7.5-1 shot of hitting your set. That's a HUGE ($25) overlay that makes your call there pure profit.

Im talking about SNG more so..


a/q top 10 hands...erm what other hand would u pick, i got it from this guys book named hellmuth? never heard of him guess hes good...
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
thestrokes
Old 03-24-2005, 12:25 AM #38 (permalink)  
thestrokes's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 119
thestrokes
top Ten hands:
AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 77 66 55
"Confidence not overconfidence"
-radashack
 
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 03-24-2005, 12:27 AM #39 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestrokes
top Ten hands:
AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 77 66 55
Define "Top Ten."

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
thestrokes
Old 03-24-2005, 12:27 AM #40 (permalink)  
thestrokes's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 119
thestrokes
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
i got it from this guys book
enough said...
"Confidence not overconfidence"
-radashack
 
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-24-2005, 12:54 AM #41 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestrokes
top Ten hands:
AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 77 66 55
Nice List
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
Greedo017
Old 03-24-2005, 04:24 AM #42 (permalink)  
Greedo017's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
Greedo017 is on a distinguished road
 "like hoes they should be discarded unless 3/4 limp dicks are in the pot..... "

i didn't think that through until now, but i don't think you understand how to use pocket pairs or hoes...
Reply With Quote
ripjohngotti
Old 03-24-2005, 05:37 AM #43 (permalink)  
ripjohngotti's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
ripjohngotti
So how about those k/9 suitedness
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
Reply With Quote
Laeelin
Old 03-24-2005, 05:14 PM #44 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
Laeelin
Am i the only one that finds it funny that someone who undervalues low pocket pairs so much.... lists 77 as one of the top 10 hands in his sig?

I guess that 8/9/T/J/Q/K/A come up so rarely that 77 is often top pair...

... or is it that 777 wins soooo much more than 222?

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
Reply With Quote
storm75m
Old 04-06-2005, 09:57 PM #45 (permalink)  
storm75m's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
storm75m is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedo017
"
i didn't think that through until now, but i don't think you understand how to use pocket pairs or hoes...
LMFAO!!!
Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
 
Reply With Quote
Sykedupp
Old 04-07-2005, 07:16 AM #46 (permalink)  
Sykedupp's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 550
Sykedupp
Send a message via MSN to Sykedupp Send a message via Yahoo to Sykedupp
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm75m
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedo017
"
i didn't think that through until now, but i don't think you understand how to use pocket pairs or hoes...
LMFAO!!!

Another post brought back from the dead, well done sir, set and match :P

-Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupie
That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.
 
Reply With Quote
LeFou
Old 09-26-2006, 10:53 PM #47 (permalink)  
LeFou's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
LeFou
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedo017
"like hoes they should be discarded unless 3/4 limp dicks are in the pot..... "

i didn't think that through until now, but i don't think you understand how to use pocket pairs or hoes...
Best Greedo Ever.

Also bumped in support of my theorem, expressed elsewhere, about RJG
Reply With Quote
Chris4tw
Old 09-27-2006, 02:20 AM #48 (permalink)  

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 30
Chris4tw
Send a message via AIM to Chris4tw
RJG obviously loses lots of money in cash games. There is no way he can make anything.

Some of you guys are really really passive when it comes to a pocket pair. Stop playing your cards only and think about your image.

If you raise pre-flop, they think your less likely to have a set when you hit, and you will probably be facing someone with two face cards.
Limping pre-flop and than wanting a big pot gives your hand away.

You can also pick up the blinds if you raise. I'll be happy taking the blinds when I raise with 22.

Overall, you get a lot more options when you raise the pot and have an easier time taking it down too.
Reply With Quote
swiggidy
Old 09-27-2006, 02:38 AM #49 (permalink)  
swiggidy's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
swiggidy will become famous soon enough
 ^^^ yo chris, most of this thread is 18 months old
Reply With Quote
Chris4tw
Old 09-27-2006, 02:44 AM #50 (permalink)  

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 30
Chris4tw
Send a message via AIM to Chris4tw
LMAO, I didn't notice. I don't look at the dates, just the content.

On a total side note, I love this smiley,
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:04 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.