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dioufy77
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10-04-2006, 07:23 PM
Post subject: pocket 9s
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 31
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Is pocket 9s a hand that plays better multiway or heads up? i have my own opinions on the matter but want to see what oyher people think!
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Rondavu
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10-04-2006, 07:26 PM
Post subject: Re: pocket 9s
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#2 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dioufy77
Is pocket 9s a hand that plays better multiway or heads up? i have my own opinions on the matter but want to see what oyher people think!
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88-TT are good in both cases for different reasons. It holds the set value of a low/mid pocket pair multiway, and the made hand value heads up.
As you move up the ranks of pocket pairs, I think their heads up value increases, while the multiway value remains, but at a sacrifice towards the ideal of isolation the higher the pair. In other words the multi way value is always there, but as the isolation value increases, you pass up a bigger and bigger edge not to do so.
So to answer your question, you want to isolate with 99 if possible.
I'm totally throwing this out of my ass, so someone feel free to correct me.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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^^ his ass speaks the truth.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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IT kind of depends where you are at on the table. It may be worthwhile from EP and MP to isolate, but if you're in LP or on the Button, with a bunch of limpers, go ahead and play it for multiway.
Instead of trying to classify 99 as a hand playable one way or another. Laud it for its versatility and be deceptive in the way you play it. Deception is where we make quite a bit of our money!
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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all hands play better heads up
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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Not drawing hands like 78s, J9s or 22. These hands make crappy pair / 2 pairs, but have a decent chance to make solid hands, such as straights, flushes, or trips in case of pp's. Low probability to make premium hands requires sufficient odds to draw.
Yes 67s has greater % to win 1 on 1 than in multiway, but it will usually be the dog. In multiway 67s still has low relative % but will actually be profitable to try to hit draws and prob. will have greater chance of being paid off.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i think those hands play better heads up too
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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bigslikk, Renton. I think you've turned this into a Limit versus No limit arguement.
In limit, suited connectors, and small pocket pairs need multiple players in big pots to make $$ over time right?
Meanwhile in no-limit, heads up with a Suited Connector and a small pocket pair are more based on the implied odds of the size of the bettors stack versus drawing odds, and whether or not you think you can take the guy for a ride if you catch, or if you can take the guy for a ride if you end up with 50% or better drawing odds to a nasty hand.
Doyle is pretty consice in Super System: Beware of going broke in unraised pots. Several limpers in an unraised pot with suited connectors just begs to have a set hit an up and down straight flush draw. You're a favorite. Until there's some other yahoo in there with king poop suited because it was 5cents to call, drawing to the same flush your'e drawing to. Now you're waaaay behind.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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In a heads up pot the value of cards matter less, therefore, all hands play better.
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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Yes, you're right.
27o in mutliway- extremely terrible crap
270 headsup- terrible crap (improvement!)
I agree.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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I think it's hard to play a large pot heads up with a weak hand.
The reason small pairs play well multi-way is because you dump them without a set. When you have the set, you have an extremely strong hand that wins ridiculously often. So you win most of the big pots (and most of the small ones).
Is it better to isolate each time and win a small pot most of the time (including when you hit your set)? Maybe, but that leads the argument in a new direction.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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sets suck in lhe
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
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what is this "limit" you speak of?
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"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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MiJ
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 208
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigslikk
Yes, you're right.
27o in mutliway- extremely terrible crap
270 headsup- terrible crap (improvement!)
I agree.
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thats if you even showdown , i agree in limit you usually have to show down ,but in NL you can steal alot of pots HU even with most marginal hands...
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
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"I might be beat, aww fiddlesticks I guess I have to call down now."
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Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.
"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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I don't think we are on the same page.. i idk. The poster was referring to full ring situation. Yes, when theres 2 ppl at the table (heads up) the cards are not really too important. However, if pot goes from 10-handed to headsup- the hands prob. met some type of standards by the players.
You cant just say 'well screw cards' they are usually not even seen. Some1 sees u c-bettin every flop they will start calling you and you will need cards.
Yes, you bet each hand strongly til the river, in the hopes that mere agression will prevent the need to showdown a single made hand. But keep betting with crap, ppl will take notice and then give u no credit. then u WILL need cards. You need to use selective agression- if you don't then you ur agression will be taken as meaningless to anyone that's paying attention. Go allin 1st hand in ring game- omfg fold all around. Do it again... skepticism. Do it a few more times and KT and A2 will call you. This is my point. Lol calling 720 for flop bluff equity... yeah ok most donks online are calling stations good luck wit that...
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