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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 02:14 AM     Post subject: Please help me beat 100nl. #1 (permalink)  
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 Ok I am about sick of losing at 100nl. I have got in about 2.5k hands and I am down 5.8 buyins. I have never lost like this and I know it isn't variance.

The sick thing about it is, I know what I am doing wrong in all of these hands. I just need it reiterated to me from others. The following are my worst hands lost so far. I will also put down what was in my fucking dumb-ass head during the hand, and my thoughts afterward.

BTW most of the time reads aren't listed, because I am just fishing these hands out of PT and don't really remember the reads unless they were critical to the hand.


Losing hand #1

***** Hand History for Game 3855088372 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, March 30, 20:37:07 ET 2006
Table Table 96159 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: jmb71 ( $34.93 )
Seat 8: Freechill ( $114.46 )
Seat 5: Renton555 ( $157.21 )
Seat 2: safeel ( $227.49 )
Seat 6: ianlippert ( $90 )
Seat 10: fluids ( $132.31 )
Seat 9: RichardHoney ( $131.81 )
Seat 1: JustChipz ( $20 )
Seat 7: Bohlicious ( $97.50 )
Seat 3: KINGBROCK1 ( $90 )
KINGBROCK1 posts small blind [$0.50].
jmb71 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Jd Ah ]

Renton555 raises [$4].

My standard raise from early position.

ianlippert folds.
Freechill folds.
RichardHoney folds.
fluids calls [$4].
safeel calls [$4].
KINGBROCK1 folds.
jmb71 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, 2c, Ts ]

Renton555 checks.

I don't generally c-bet oatmeal flops with two opps and OOP.

fluids checks.
safeel checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
Renton555 bets [$10].
fluids raises [$30].
safeel folds.
Renton555 calls [$20].

The dreaded jack appears. With str8 and flush draws out there I bet the pot. I guess I thought he was on QJ or something and thought I was stealing, so I call.

** Dealing River ** [ 7s ]
Renton555 checks.

Here I probably should have thrown out a blocking bet, I think. I was so Phil Hellmuth in this hand (thinking I had the best of it), and so I thought I'd see if he'd bluff at it.

fluids bets [$45].

He does. Here's where I made the final worst mistake. I don't know why I had him on a weak jack, but I did. He didn't have too much left, so I just put him all in. In reality he was just slowplaying a set.

Renton555 is all-In.
if you have jacks
fluids is all-In.
fluids shows [ Tc, Td ] three of a kind, tens.
Renton555 shows [ Jd, Ah ] a pair of jacks.
Renton555 wins $24.90 from side pot #1 with a pair of jacks.
fluids wins $267.12 from the main pot with three of a kind, tens.


Losing hand #2

***** Hand History for Game 3828211145 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, March 26, 20:23:27 ET 2006
Table Glenhuntly (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: king4u7979 ( $110.98 )
Seat 2: Joe__Cool ( $192.50 )
Seat 3: i3ja3ck ( $141.07 )
Seat 4: wtkings ( $128.25 )
Seat 5: unknown1969 ( $100 )
Seat 6: skilgen ( $87.05 )
Seat 7: Guenni100 ( $96.14 )
Seat 8: meathoohs1 ( $106.75 )
Seat 9: torpeda ( $72.80 )
Seat 10: Renton555 ( $100 )
Renton555 posts small blind [$0.50].
king4u7979 posts big blind [$1].
Renton555 posts small blind [$0.50].
king4u7979 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Qc Qh ]
Joe__Cool folds.
i3ja3ck calls [$1].
wtkings folds.
unknown1969 folds.
meathoohs1 folds.

Renton555 raises [$3.50].

I generally raise a little smaller in position.

king4u7979 calls [$3].
i3ja3ck calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 8c, 8s ]

Renton555 bets [$10].

My standard flop c-bet of the pot whenever theres a draw.

king4u7979 folds.
i3ja3ck calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]

Renton555 bets [$20].

Draw doesn't complete, so I bet the pot again.

i3ja3ck raises [$40].
Renton555 calls [$20].

Worried a little now, but I still call since its "only a minraise."

** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
Renton555 is all-In.

Why would I do this? I don't even know what I was thinking. I assume the correct line is check/fold?

i3ja3ck calls [$46].
Renton555 shows [ Qc, Qh ] two pairs, queens and eights.
i3ja3ck shows [ 8d, 9d ] a full house, Eights full of threes.
i3ja3ck wins $201 from the main pot with a full house, Eights full of threes.



Losing hand #3

***** Hand History for Game 3826019739 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, March 26, 15:04:14 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1210270 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: pipeliner420 ( $148.70 )
Seat 3: Berge20 ( $270.70 )
Seat 4: IWILLRECOUP ( $97 )
Seat 5: whodare2lose ( $184.66 )
Seat 6: jagersky ( $109.40 )
Seat 7: DroopyII ( $143.10 )
Seat 9: KalEl35 ( $105.05 )
Seat 10: bulletsfull ( $49.67 )
Seat 8: Renton555 ( $100 )
Seat 1: bphpbk ( $25 )
KalEl35 posts small blind [$0.50].
bulletsfull posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ 3h Ah ]
pipeliner420 calls [$1].
Berge20 folds.
IWILLRECOUP folds.
whodare2lose folds.
jagersky folds.
DroopyII folds.

Renton555 raises [$4].

My standard raise with a good hand in position.

KalEl35 folds.
bulletsfull folds.
pipeliner420 calls [$3].

** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, Jh, Kh ]
pipeliner420 bets [$10].
Renton555 raises [$25].

Semi-bluff. Is this a bad move? Why he calls here, I will never know.

pipeliner420 calls [$15].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
pipeliner420 checks.
Renton555 checks.

** Dealing River ** [ Qh ]
pipeliner420 bets [$50].
Renton555 is all-In.

I don't feel too bad about this play, he only had $20 left, and there wasn't any way I could put him on QQ,44,KK. What do you think?

pipeliner420 calls [$21].
pipeliner420 shows [ 4c, 4s ] a full house, Fours full of jacks.
Renton555 doesn't show [ 3h, Ah ] a flush, ace high.
pipeliner420 wins $198.50 from the main pot with a full house, Fours full of jacks.




Losing hand #4

God, I fucking hate shorties. I don't got too much to say about this one, except the push on the end is a bad idea. No better hand calls me.

***** Hand History for Game 3848470952 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, March 29, 20:11:45 ET 2006
Table Table 96113 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: ethn426 ( $90.11 )
Seat 3: InktMan ( $139.85 )
Seat 4: Louis_g ( $81.75 )
Seat 5: sephrothgt ( $123.44 )
Seat 6: SirCrips ( $59.17 )
Seat 8: crazyboy79 ( $252.48 )
Seat 10: muggsi1 ( $56.80 )
Seat 9: Renton555 ( $98.50 )
Seat 1: jcn47 ( $91 )
Seat 7: MikeyMike__ ( $17.05 )
jcn47 posts small blind [$0.50].
ethn426 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Qd Kd ]
InktMan folds.
Louis_g calls [$1].
sephrothgt folds.
SirCrips folds.
MikeyMike__ folds.
crazyboy79 calls [$1].
Renton555 raises [$5].
muggsi1 calls [$5].
jcn47 folds.
ethn426 calls [$4].
Louis_g folds.
crazyboy79 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qh, 6h, 3d ]
ethn426 checks.
Renton555 bets [$16].
muggsi1 calls [$16].
ethn426 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ac ]
Renton555 bets [$35.80].
muggsi1 is all-In.
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
Renton555 shows [ Qd, Kd ] a pair of queens.
muggsi1 shows [ Ah, 4h ] a pair of aces.
muggsi1 wins $118.10 from the main pot with a pair of aces.
SirCrips has left the table.



I don't know why I keep fucking this up.
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sejje
Old 03-31-2006, 02:50 AM #2 (permalink)  
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The last two aren't horrible.

Maybe I'm too weak, but a few of these plays don't seem right. Check-raising the river all-in with one pair is asking for it. Also you said he didn't have much behind, but I think he had $55. That's a lot where I come from. Also, you had him on a "weak jack," which I would call QJ or TJ...one of those being two pair. I see TJ showdown far more often than I'd imagine...people love to flop this hand.

The hand with 88 I think the queens were blinding you. Not a lot of hands minraise the turn on that board. I think ace-high doesn't call the river push, and that's what you expect to see here if you value bet.

The flush hand (A3) isn't horrible, but that board is pretty scary for a flush. A lot of times your flush is good on a paired board, but when the pair is a face card, and with the two other face cards, I don't like it. I'm not trying to get my stack in here.

Anyway, I think you're right about already knowing. I've heard nothing but good things about you on this board. I've played in this game and I seem to always downswing also, but I really felt the level of play mirrored 25NL in a lot of ways. It's nice to see someone else playing party though; nobody seems to play there after 25NL, at least not on these boards. Anyway, you beat 50NL pretty soundly, and you can beat this game too. Six buy-ins doesn't mean anything either way. I'm sure you're pulling out your four hands that you made big mistakes in; I'm also sure you have plenty of great plays that got sucked out on and the like.

I'd bet you're already making winning plays here; don't worry about the downswing.
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drmcboy
Old 03-31-2006, 02:55 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 I may have missed the memo, but AJ UTG and A3 anywhere are not good hands.
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jackvance
Old 03-31-2006, 03:08 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Heh, pretty interesting hands, nice to see some 100NL games. Sorry you lost out so much though. The impression I get here is that these guys frequently will play the more unexpected hands, like suited connectors etc, so basically for the huge pay-off incase it hits.. and because of the hard time you'll have predicting whatever they might have, their no doubt accurate reads on you and the way they can mix their gameplay up so you will have no real idea where you are at or what's going on.. that is probably the biggest wall you have to scale here.

And it's just a guess, ofcourse I know nothing, but maybe they're getting too accurate reads on you because of your methodical 50NL-style play?

I really hope you can conquer 100NL like you did 50NL btw
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 03:10 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy
I may have missed the memo, but AJ UTG and A3 anywhere are not good hands.
I raise AJ utg so it doesn't look so transparent when I raise with QQ+ utg.

A3s is raiseable in position, I think.

Please respond with why you think these were bad plays. It doesn't do anyone any good to simply say that the play is bad.
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dj newman
Old 03-31-2006, 03:10 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I put my $5 on you for a reason Renton...a couple of bad plays mixed with a couple not so bad. Sounds like a little frustration after moving up a level...not uncommon. Chill for a couple of days and then spank it...cause you can.
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sejje
Old 03-31-2006, 03:18 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
A3s is raiseable in position, I think.
I think any two is raiseable in position (don't get me wrong, I'm a TTTTTTTAG). However, I like it less with A3 than I do with 67 or TJ. You can always represent an ace; however, representing an ace when you actually have a weak ace doesn't do you any good. You're still not good to resistance. If you represent an ace with 67, you have a backup plan. Sometimes.

Just my .02. I'm just not keen on weak aces. They do more harm than good, because you can't really showdown TP with them. If you're getting action to your TP, you're probably 90% beat.
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 03:18 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
Heh, pretty interesting hands, nice to see some 100NL games. Sorry you lost out so much though. The impression I get here is that these guys frequently will play the more unexpected hands, like suited connectors etc, so basically for the huge pay-off incase it hits.. and because of the hard time you'll have predicting whatever they might have, their no doubt accurate reads on you and the way they can mix their gameplay up so you will have no real idea where you are at or what's going on.. that is probably the biggest wall you have to scale here.

And it's just a guess, ofcourse I know nothing, but maybe they're getting too accurate reads on you because of your methodical 50NL-style play?

I really hope you can conquer 100NL like you did 50NL btw
Nah, 100nl isn't that complicated. The wall I am having to scale is the fact that these guys don't just gladly hand they're stacks over to me with TPBK anymore. At 50nl, it wasn't nearly as big a deal for me to make bad calls like these, because of all the stacks I was taking along with it.
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drmcboy
Old 03-31-2006, 03:22 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 if you want variety raise 67s or something. Raising up here with AJ - what kind of flop do you want? Is someone going to call behind and donk a bunch of chips to you with AT?

really it's the same with A3, you're playing for two pair plus, you want people to see a flop. you can raise, but you're raising with two cards, not A3. again what flop did you want to see.
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 03:32 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy
if you want variety raise 67s or something. Raising up here with AJ - what kind of flop do you want? Is someone going to call behind and donk a bunch of chips to you with AT?
I agree with you, but do you honestly do mixup raises OOP with 67s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy
really it's the same with A3, you're playing for two pair plus, you want people to see a flop. you can raise, but you're raising with two cards, not A3. again what flop did you want to see.
I raise A3s in position for the same reason people raise any ace in a shorthanded situation. Because you have a 20% edge over any non-ace non-pair. Technically, isn't raising any ace with three left to act a +EV scenario with 2.5bb in dead money?
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jackvance
Old 03-31-2006, 03:35 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Nah, 100nl isn't that complicated. The wall I am having to scale is the fact that these guys don't just gladly hand they're stacks over to me with TPBK anymore. At 50nl, it wasn't nearly as big a deal for me to make bad calls like these, because of all the stacks I was taking along with it.
Ah that's good news then. Maybe take a step down to 50NL and let it all sink in, make a few bucks and then move on?

It's very understandable that you don't really notice minor leaks you have when you're just winning winning winning. That's why a move to 100NL is a very nice learning experience.
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 03:43 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 God, fuck it all.

Do people limp/call with AK a lot?

***** Hand History for Game 3856009251 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, March 30, 22:33:24 ET 2006
Table Yacht Club (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: canonjam ( $81.55 )
Seat 3: Renton555 ( $190.10 )
Seat 4: aufever ( $39.30 )
Seat 6: tkkjsoup ( $118.20 )
Seat 8: ghostface23 ( $98.85 )
Seat 10: justericason ( $81 )
Seat 9: Revan216 ( $108.40 )
Seat 2: shoath ( $89.65 )
Seat 7: ChiefBigHand ( $118.81 )
Seat 5: PureGambler ( $99 )
PureGambler posts small blind [$0.50].
tkkjsoup posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Kc Qs ]
ChiefBigHand folds.
ghostface23 calls [$1].
Revan216 calls [$1].
justericason calls [$1].
canonjam folds.
shoath folds.
Renton555 raises [$5].
PureGambler folds.
tkkjsoup folds.
ghostface23 calls [$4].
Revan216 folds.
>You have options at Table 96159 Table!.
justericason folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, Jh, Qd ]
ghostface23 checks.
Renton555 bets [$9].
ghostface23 raises [$23].
Renton555 is all-In.
ghostface23 is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
ghostface23 shows [ Kh, As ] a straight, ten to ace.
Renton555 shows [ Kc, Qs ] a straight, nine to king.
Renton555 wins $91.25 from side pot #1 with a straight, nine to king.
ghostface23 wins $198.20 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
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midas06
Old 03-31-2006, 03:48 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Chin up Renton. Just figure out how they're playing and figure out the best way to overcome it. Don't play for stacks so often maybe? Where abouts are you playing?
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 03:52 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Chin up Renton. Just figure out how they're playing and figure out the best way to overcome it. Don't play for stacks so often maybe? Where abouts are you playing?
Party.

I pick the tables with the biggest pot size.
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drmcboy
Old 03-31-2006, 04:11 AM #15 (permalink)  
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 I'm not sure what else to say on AJ. If you agree it's a bad play, don't do it.

20% on A3, I'm just not sure where you're coming from. These are even weak for UTG limp.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

27,396,864 games 0.047 secs 582,912,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 45.2662 % 45.01% 00.25% { 98s }
Hand 2: 54.7338 % 54.48% 00.25% { A3s }


---

41,095,296 games 0.063 secs 652,306,285 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 65.8686 % 65.58% 00.29% { 44 }
Hand 2: 34.1314 % 33.84% 00.29% { A3s }


---

109,587,456 games 0.203 secs 539,839,684 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 41.8339 % 41.56% 00.27% { 65s, 65o }
Hand 2: 58.1661 % 57.90% 00.27% { A3s }


---
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 04:22 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 Ok on the AJ, we had a big long thread about this earlier today. I'd like to talk more with you about it drmc.

Do you not think its a good idea to have a larger perceived raising range in EP than AK, QQ+? I don't think raising with hands like KQ and AJ UTG is a -EV play, I think, if you are smart enough to lay down in dominated situations (kicks self in head), then you win the blinds and cbets off missed sets enough to a LEAST make a neutral EV play. But I think you gain significant value when you raise AA/KK UTG if you have a greater perceived UTG raising range than AA/KK.
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jackvance
Old 03-31-2006, 04:35 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Do people limp/call with AK a lot?
I see it all the time in 10NL, lol..

Btw this imo is tough luck and not bad play. No way could you pin him on AK. A pair and a 2-edged straight draw is no shame to push. You had the +EV big here.

Btw maybe consider buying in short for a while? Not only will it cap your losses, it'll also shortcircuit your opponents' implied odds with all these marginal hands they play etc.
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 04:38 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
Btw maybe consider buying in short for a while? Not only will it cap your losses, it'll also shortcircuit your opponents' implied odds with all these marginal hands they play etc.
I have a vendetta against all who buy short. (offense intended if you do )
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Miffed22001
Old 03-31-2006, 04:50 AM #19 (permalink)  
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 the most obvious thing that i notice immediatly is that only once did u play for stacks with a strong hand, a flush and then you were horrribly bad beaten by a donk imo.
In the other hands you have been told you are beaten or people are raising when it appers you dont have a hand but you do and ur calling raises/min raises then not trying to block bet oop and folding to a raise, eg the AJ hand.
Some things you might need.
1. If you get raised with top pair its no good
2. learn to check raise 'odd' looking flops like jhigh ones or khigh ones. I feel that once opps know you will check raise with but also at times without what you are repping you win a few more uncontested pots (44 hand for instance) Yes thats still a horrible call.
3. Check behind with or without hands at times. The Aj hand is good for that. Just unlucky he has the set. Stop calling bets when ur obviously beat. 2 streets of bluffing doesnt exist much at 100nl!
4. Go learn about blocking bets. I dont see any in this thread, maybe thats just your selection, so if you know about them use them!
5. perhaps move to six max? Dont be scared of taggs getting no action there, they do. You just need to work harder to find bad players.

Of course once you start only playing for stacks with monster hands then you'll start posting about why ur winrate isnt so high!
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drmcboy
Old 03-31-2006, 05:00 AM #20 (permalink)  
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 you aren't smart enough. No shame in that. It's hard.

I think you have the cart before the horse. Had you have a few folded to you when you raised in EP? Have you been sitting with same opps for a long time? Open the range when they make you. Plus, how many opps are smart enough to note the difference between UTG raise and button raise, which since A3 is in your range I'm guessing you do plenty of.

I think experience will help you see that AJ is not really the hand you want to mix it up with. How is it you're magically supposed to know you're dominated? We named it a trap hand for a reason.

If the theory is mostly you're winning blinds + possible flop cbet then giving up, what difference does it make what hand it is? With 67s, you'll know for sure if you get played back at whether you're beat. Or, you can get the divining rod out and try and tell AT from AQ.

Also, don't forget that even though you just moved up, you aren't at the Bellagio 2/4k game. These folks aren't nearly as good as I think you think they are.
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jackvance
Old 03-31-2006, 05:14 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
4. Go learn about blocking bets.
A blocking bet is a raise that hands you have beat will fold to and hands that beat you will raise right? So to see where you stand. How much would a blocking bet normally be compared to the pot?
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 05:22 AM #22 (permalink)  
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 I think I found a better way to play AJ utg just now. Don't dis my play I just did this for fun.

***** Hand History for Game 3856769271 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 31, 00:18:29 ET 2006
Table Table 96535 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: Renton555 ( $132.05 )
Seat 10: jserio52 ( $172.50 )
Seat 8: Municyclist ( $132.60 )
Seat 5: torpeda ( $89.70 )
Seat 1: deveiong ( $91.22 )
Seat 9: SaggyTTs ( $145.50 )
Seat 6: francesca155 ( $97.81 )
Seat 3: droopdogg111 ( $100 )
Seat 4: listen1 ( $61.40 )
Seat 7: cbj21 ( $48.73 )
jserio52 posts small blind [$0.50].
deveiong posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Ah Js ]
Renton555 calls [$1].
droopdogg111 folds.
listen1 folds.
torpeda folds.
francesca155 folds.
cbj21 raises [$3].
Municyclist folds.
SaggyTTs folds.
jserio52 folds.
deveiong folds.
Renton555 raises [$9].
cbj21 calls [$7].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Tc, 4s ]
Renton555 bets [$10].
cbj21 folds.
Renton555 does not show cards.
Renton555 wins $30.45


Just play it like donks play AA!
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Miffed22001
Old 03-31-2006, 05:25 AM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
I think I found a better way to play AJ utg just now. Don't dis my play I just did this for fun.

***** Hand History for Game 3856769271 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 31, 00:18:29 ET 2006
Table Table 96535 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: Renton555 ( $132.05 )
Seat 10: jserio52 ( $172.50 )
Seat 8: Municyclist ( $132.60 )
Seat 5: torpeda ( $89.70 )
Seat 1: deveiong ( $91.22 )
Seat 9: SaggyTTs ( $145.50 )
Seat 6: francesca155 ( $97.81 )
Seat 3: droopdogg111 ( $100 )
Seat 4: listen1 ( $61.40 )
Seat 7: cbj21 ( $48.73 )
jserio52 posts small blind [$0.50].
deveiong posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Ah Js ]
Renton555 calls [$1].
droopdogg111 folds.
listen1 folds.
torpeda folds.
francesca155 folds.
cbj21 raises [$3].
Municyclist folds.
SaggyTTs folds.
jserio52 folds.
deveiong folds.
Renton555 raises [$9].
cbj21 calls [$7].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Tc, 4s ]
Renton555 bets [$10].
cbj21 folds.
Renton555 does not show cards.
Renton555 wins $30.45


Just play it like donks play AA!
1. donks dont play AA like that. I do. And youd be surprisd how many idiots still pay it off
2. Why bother?

100nl is still more about ABC poker and good tables than it is about any table and DEF poker
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homeboy604
Old 03-31-2006, 05:37 AM #24 (permalink)  
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100 nl is NOT a hard game to beat, just like 200 nl is NOT a hard game to beat.
sounds like you've run into some tough situations.

i think you're too worried about diversifying your play. you dont need to at that level. just play multi tables and abc, and you'll get the money.
ppl cant lay down over pairs to sets, its so easy.

dont make a habit of raising a3 like that, and a j in early position. theres only a few regulars playing in these games. you dont need to diversify your play.
the qq hand you need to protect your hand. make it $5 to go at least.
GL
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Renton
Old 03-31-2006, 05:50 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
1. donks dont play AA like that. I do. And youd be surprisd how many idiots still pay it off
Enough idiots pay it off for it to be more profitable than playing AA like normal? Thats really hard to believe.
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midas06
Old 03-31-2006, 06:02 AM #26 (permalink)  
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Donks do play AA like that. People do pay it off.
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midas06
Old 03-31-2006, 06:03 AM #27 (permalink)  
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Also, don't play for stacks with such weak holdings, unless you have a pretty good read that he's a donk and will call off with much less than you have.
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Galapogos
Old 03-31-2006, 07:03 AM #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Also, don't play for stacks with such weak holdings, unless you have a pretty good read that he's a donk and will call off with much less than you have.
This says it all. You look like a tourney player in these situations. Why would you want to go all in with top pair? You're not at 25NL and even then I don't like doing that. You're getting too carried away. Stop looking at your hands, look at your opponents.

Right now I am mucking around in the 25NL tables to build my roll back up I must admit (I've been out for a while). BUT I was at 100NL and do know that it plays with nearly the same texture as 25NL. I don't play on a lot of sites but I know without a solid read I will not take TPTK to an opponent's stack at 25NL.

But you know all of this already. You couldn't have gotten to this point if you didn't. Play your game. And I don't like the AJ thing either. That's an EP limping hand for me. If you want to shake things up use suited connectors with a raise in EP.

But yeah anyway, main point is slow down. You know you only want your whole stack out there if you know you're going to win the hand. Keep going though. You can kill this limit.
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WildBobAA
Old 03-31-2006, 07:15 AM #29 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
I raise AJ utg so it doesn't look so transparent when I raise with QQ+ utg.
Leak. Most 100NL players won't be paying enough attention for this to matter. You can just play ABC poker and win at 100NL.
 
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 03-31-2006, 08:55 AM #30 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
I raise AJ utg so it doesn't look so transparent when I raise with QQ+ utg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Nah, 100nl isn't that complicated.
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
 
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Off5th
Old 03-31-2006, 12:24 PM #31 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
God, fuck it all.

Do people limp/call with AK a lot?

***** Hand History for Game 3856009251 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, March 30, 22:33:24 ET 2006
Table Yacht Club (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: canonjam ( $81.55 )
Seat 3: Renton555 ( $190.10 )
Seat 4: aufever ( $39.30 )
Seat 6: tkkjsoup ( $118.20 )
Seat 8: ghostface23 ( $98.85 )
Seat 10: justericason ( $81 )
Seat 9: Revan216 ( $108.40 )
Seat 2: shoath ( $89.65 )
Seat 7: ChiefBigHand ( $118.81 )
Seat 5: PureGambler ( $99 )
PureGambler posts small blind [$0.50].
tkkjsoup posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Kc Qs ]
ChiefBigHand folds.
ghostface23 calls [$1].
Revan216 calls [$1].
justericason calls [$1].
canonjam folds.
shoath folds.
Renton555 raises [$5].
PureGambler folds.
tkkjsoup folds.
ghostface23 calls [$4].
Revan216 folds.
>You have options at Table 96159 Table!.
justericason folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, Jh, Qd ]
ghostface23 checks.
Renton555 bets [$9].
ghostface23 raises [$23].
Renton555 is all-In.
ghostface23 is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
ghostface23 shows [ Kh, As ] a straight, ten to ace.
Renton555 shows [ Kc, Qs ] a straight, nine to king.
Renton555 wins $91.25 from side pot #1 with a straight, nine to king.
ghostface23 wins $198.20 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
Wow! KQ on a board like this. I would've bet the flop 3/4 or pot size, if I get reraised, easy fold for me. The way I see it, your drawing dead on a flop board like that. YOur K can obviously give someone a one card straight if you happen to hit your two pair, making your vunerable to call. Same as you I just started $100 n/l this week and I've had a break even week so far, and I'm happy about it because the big pots i lost I was ahead and got sucked out on the turn or river. If you beat $50 n/l then your good enough to beat $100 n/l. Just don't get married to your hole cards when you hit a bad flop that might get you into trouble.
"I want to win money so I play the worst. If I could find a group of 2nd graders with $200 bankrolls I would play them."

-Aokrangly
 
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Fnord
Old 03-31-2006, 12:39 PM #32 (permalink)  
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As you move up higher, the fullish buys get much better about picking spots to play a big pot. Your hyper-aggression and high value on medium-strong hands is doing you in here.

Also, inducing bluffs becomes more profitable because many of these guys don't like to call, but will bet when you put the "For Sale" sign up on the lawn.

Typical 100NL mistakes:
Not playing back at aggressive players often enough.
Slow playing too much (see prior point.)
Running transparent, exploitive lines against aware players (easy to read.)
Not raising often enough post-flop. (loose 3-bets were a chip-burner for me)
Under-betting (giving odds to suck-out.)

My basic plan of attack against aware (multi-table) players is to steal everything not bolted down. Lots of small pots. Then I start inducing bluffs. I really want them to feel lost as to where they're at in the hand. On top of all that, I've recently been much much more careful about picking spots to play a big pot. Sometimes that means you just have to miss a bet or let a five, four, three or two outer get there and pay it off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Cocco_Bill
Old 03-31-2006, 01:03 PM #33 (permalink)  
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You are overplaying many of those hands. Pot control is important, also watch out for those turn min raises, they often mean top 2 pair or better.
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Miffed22001
Old 03-31-2006, 01:14 PM #34 (permalink)  
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 ghostface23 is a fucking fish
i stacked that plonker 3 times this morning playing 25nl.
wtf is he doing at 100nl? playing like a passive fish with scared money by the looks of it.
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biondino
Old 03-31-2006, 01:51 PM #35 (permalink)  
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I canonly echo the fact that you're overvaluing mediocre hands. You are getting all your money in against playres who've already shown strength with TPTK or less! I wouldn't do that at $25 unless I knew the villain was an uber-donk, and I'm sure you wouldn't either.

It seems to me that you've got it in your head that now you're at $100, you can't let anyone walk over you, you can't be seen to be weak, so you're doing the opposite. I say this because I've done it too.

You also seem to think the other players are either bluffing or playing crappy hands too strongly. MOST OF THE TIME THEY'RE NOT. Most of the time they have roughly what they say they have.
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donnybaker
Old 03-31-2006, 02:11 PM #36 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
4. Go learn about blocking bets.
A blocking bet is a raise that hands you have beat will fold to and hands that beat you will raise right? So to see where you stand. How much would a blocking bet normally be compared to the pot?
That's a probe bet. A blocking bet is usually on the river when you want a cheap showdown out of position. So you bet something like half the pot and hopefully your opp will think maybe you have something and just call behind.
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midas06
Old 03-31-2006, 03:53 PM #37 (permalink)  
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And if you get raised you can easily fold.
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samsonite2100
Old 03-31-2006, 04:18 PM #38 (permalink)  
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Yeah, Renton, I think the obvious problem is that you're throwing money away on the river. I like that you're playing aggressively. But the problem with playing aggressive is there's a very thin line between making a genius intimidation play that scares a good hand out of the pot, and flushing your money down the toilet. You've got to be able to switch gears. But I think you already know that--you already very insightfully pointed out that the difference is probably that you got paid off on your marginal pushes so often at 25 and 50 by people with TPWK or worse, that it made up for the times you destacked yourself like in the examples above. Just rein it in a little and I think you'll be fine.
 
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jyms
Old 03-31-2006, 05:38 PM #39 (permalink)  
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Quote:
ghostface23 is a fucking fish
i stacked that plonker 3 times this morning playing 25nl.
wtf is he doing at 100nl? playing like a passive fish with scared money by the looks of it.
Probably made another deposit. You took the last of it, now he has enough to start at the top again. I know several people that play like this. I never tell them the error of their ways (they know it all, already) Put in the deposit on pay day, play half at the highest limit you can, try to make the bonus or the bigh pot as your BR goes down keep buying in at lower and lower limits till either the bonus clears or go bust. Instead of rising to the stars they blast off and free fall as slow as possible.[/quote]
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Irisheyes
Old 03-31-2006, 05:59 PM #40 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBobAA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
I raise AJ utg so it doesn't look so transparent when I raise with QQ+ utg.
Leak. Most 100NL players won't be paying enough attention for this to matter. You can just play ABC poker and win at 100NL.
Renton I almost guaratee you that you're losing because you're trying to be all tricky deceptive against players who aren't watching and giving up too much value in the process.

Go back to ABC. Tighten up preflop. I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread by the way, just saw some key posts, you're over-thinking.
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BankItDrew
Old 03-31-2006, 06:11 PM #41 (permalink)  
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 IMO

Hand 1: AJo is a shitty hand to be raising in EP. No need to check raise all in on the river.

Hand 2: If he raises the turn with two pair on the board, give opp. credit for a full house. So look for a cheap showdown and rely on your 2 outs. Why make such a small raise here with position? When you have position, you want the pots to be bigger - unlike when you don't have the position advantage. Hell, you raised AJo OOP stronger than QQ IP.

Hand 3: Good aggression on the draw. Not too bad of a hand here.

Hand 4: Check the ace. Look for a cheap showdown, fold to his all in. Reads here are important of course.

Renton, have you found that your game has changed much from 25NL & 50NL to 100NL? I suggest playing your ABC game, your 'A' game, your 25 and 50NL game. Start with the basics, just like you did at those levels ie. few starting hands, very TAGgy style.

GL
 
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bigboy5540
Old 03-31-2006, 07:23 PM #42 (permalink)  
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raising with AJ in EP was your worst play. You are only called by better hands and many times you are going to be dominated. Don't do it anymore. If you are trying to build a looser image, it is a better idea to raise with suited connectors or low pocket pairs even. KQ is a similar hand. You don't raise with it in early position. Doing so is asking for getting stacked. Also I don't know why you put the guy all in. Just calling is acceptable but going all in with one pair and the opponent is betting so strongly is a very bad move. You are only called by a better hand 99% of the time. As a matter of fact, you said you put the opponent on QJ. But you checked it to him on the river. Do you really think the opponent would bet so strongly as a value bet with only QJ? Most of the times they have two pair or better in this situation if they bet on the river. Otherwise most people would check it down. Reasoning behind it is that with QJ, if they bet, they are only called by a better hand in most circumstances.

Just remember, the deeper the stacks, the more cautious you have to play. Every raise, even a min raise means something. You HAVE to stop and think. Why would they do that? What could they have? The hand where you had QQ, the minraise should have made you auto muck your hand, or at least play more cautiously. Think about it, would he min raise you with a hand like 1010? I say 99% of players would just call with that board and your preflop actions.

Renton, the last two hands you just got sucked out on by fish. Not your fault. Keep at it. I can see you killing the game soon because you are trying to learn from your mistakes.
im good at poker
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 04-01-2006, 05:59 AM #43 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Ok on the AJ, we had a big long thread about this earlier today. I'd like to talk more with you about it drmc.

Do you not think its a good idea to have a larger perceived raising range in EP than AK, QQ+? I don't think raising with hands like KQ and AJ UTG is a -EV play, I think, if you are smart enough to lay down in dominated situations (kicks self in head), then you win the blinds and cbets off missed sets enough to a LEAST make a neutral EV play. But I think you gain significant value when you raise AA/KK UTG if you have a greater perceived UTG raising range than AA/KK.
I will raise UTG with suited connectors and small pocket pairs occasionally to "mix it up", but NEVER with AJo. That just sucks. Why do you want to be OOP with a dominated hand? Even at 2000nl I'm sure an UTG raise gets a lot of respect, and AA/KK/QQ/AK make up a big part of a typical player's range.
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Renton
Old 04-01-2006, 07:57 PM #44 (permalink)  
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 ***** Hand History for Game 3866663489 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, April 01, 14:54:23 ET 2006
Table Irish Luck (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: chuckincharg ( $100 )
Seat 3: yankee1010 ( $127.49 )
Seat 4: skrub2tm ( $334.41 )
Seat 5: SandM14 ( $47.89 )
Seat 6: crow_milo9 ( $46.45 )
Seat 8: RyRy713 ( $132.24 )
Seat 9: kirbsterAA ( $233.79 )
Seat 10: PhillyHoops ( $37.88 )
Seat 7: Renton555 ( $109.20 )
Seat 1: bandit100 ( $101.35 )
RyRy713 posts small blind [$0.50].
kirbsterAA posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ 6h 6s ]
>You have options at Jackhammer (No DP) Table!.
PhillyHoops folds.
bandit100 folds.
chuckincharg calls [$1].
yankee1010 calls [$1].
skrub2tm folds.
SandM14 folds.
crow_milo9 calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 96041 Table!.
Renton555 raises [$7].
RyRy713 folds.
>You have options at Table 96535 Table!.
kirbsterAA calls [$6].
chuckincharg folds.
yankee1010 folds.
crow_milo9 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, 6c, 5d ]
kirbsterAA bets [$8].
Renton555 calls [$8].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
kirbsterAA bets [$5].
Renton555 raises [$15].
>You have options at Jackhammer (No DP) Table!.
kirbsterAA raises [$25].
>You have options at Table 96535 Table!.
Renton555 is all-In.
kirbsterAA calls [$64.20].
** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]
kirbsterAA shows [ 9s, 9d ] three of a kind, nines.
Renton555 doesn't show [ 6h, 6s ] three of a kind, sixes.
kirbsterAA wins $218.90 from the main pot with three of a kind, nines.
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homeboy604
Old 04-01-2006, 09:59 PM #45 (permalink)  
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why are you raising 66 like this here?
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Warpe
Old 04-01-2006, 10:12 PM #46 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homeboy604
why are you raising 66 like this here?
...then not raising your set on the flop?



 
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Renton
Old 04-01-2006, 10:17 PM #47 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeboy604
why are you raising 66 like this here?
...then not raising your set on the flop?
Homeboy: Why not? 50% of the time this takes down the pot. Of the other 50% of the time, I take this down on the flop mostly. Do you never make plays like this? I'd like to hear your thoughts.


Warpe: Would you honestly feel a need to defend top set on a flop like this?


I don't think I played this hand incorrectly. Please tell me if I am wrong here, because I probably am (otherwise I wouldn't post the hand).
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Warpe
Old 04-01-2006, 10:23 PM #48 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Would you honestly feel a need to defend top set on a flop like this?
Defend? No. But what purpose does it serve to give villain a free card? Make him pay to suck out on you.



 
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Renton
Old 04-01-2006, 10:41 PM #49 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Would you honestly feel a need to defend top set on a flop like this?
Defend? No. But what purpose does it serve to give villain a free card? Make him pay to suck out on you.
He paid 8 dollars for that card.
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Renton
Old 04-01-2006, 11:03 PM #50 (permalink)  
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 After this shitty week of poker, I so deserved this.

***** Hand History for Game 3867746958 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, April 01, 17:57:37 ET 2006
Table Table 97427 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: sandiego10 ( $118.90 )
Seat 2: jtom2003 ( $232.45 )
Seat 3: whodare2lose ( $86.52 )
Seat 4: Teletran1 ( $107.95 )
Seat 5: Orange_Hours ( $110.75 )
Seat 6: Bohlicious ( $98.50 )
Seat 7: chatty83 ( $21.95 )
Seat 8: unknown1969 ( $99.40 )
Seat 10: hoju9 ( $146.80 )
Seat 9: Renton555 ( $101 )
whodare2lose posts small blind [$0.50].
Teletran1 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ 7c 7s ]
Orange_Hours folds.
Bohlicious calls [$1].
chatty83 folds.
unknown1969 folds.
Renton555 calls [$1].
hoju9 folds.
sandiego10 calls [$1].
jtom2003 calls [$1].
whodare2lose calls [$0.50].
Teletran1 checks.
>You have options at Table 97151 Table!.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, 7d, 5h ]
whodare2lose checks.
Teletran1 checks.
>You have options at Table 96535 Table!.
Bohlicious bets [$5.70].
>You have options at Table 96192 Table!.
Renton555 calls [$5.70].
>You have options at Table 95799 Table!.
sandiego10 calls [$5.70].
jtom2003 folds.
whodare2lose folds.
Teletran1 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ As ]
Bohlicious bets [$21.95].
>You have options at Table 96535 Table!.
>You have options at Table 96192 Table!.
Renton555 calls [$21.95].
sandiego10 folds.
** Dealing River ** [ Kd ]
Bohlicious is all-In [$69.85]
Renton555 calls [$69.85].
>You have options at Table 97151 Table!.
Bohlicious shows [ 5s, 5d ] a full house, Fives full of sevens.
Renton555 shows [ 7c, 7s ] four of a kind, sevens.
Renton555 wins $203.70 from the main pot with four of a kind, sevens.
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