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DrNoChance
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07-11-2004, 04:09 PM
Post subject: Playing top pair without strong kicker when OOP
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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I've often wondered how other people handle this situation, which I seem to run into alot:
You limp in with a marginal hand like KTo from mid position (no callers in front of you). You get callers behind you, but not the small blind.
Flop comes K rag rag, but the rags are connecting or one-holed and there is a flush draw. Big blind checks, and you have 1-2 players after you.
Do you:
1. Check, giving a free card to opponents you might have beaten at the moment? If someone behind you bets, do you check-raise or fold?
2. Bet your standard "tease the chasers" amount of 50-100% of the pot? If you're called, do you put them on a better King or a flush draw?
3. Overbet the pot to eliminate all but the fishiest chasers? Do you assume that you are beaten if you are called/raised?
I'm still not very comfortable being OOP against a draw ridden board without a strong kicker. What do most people do in this situation?
I'm agressive, so I tend to bet my usual amount as in #2, and sometimes fire away again on the turn and sometimes slow down depending on who calls me. I've lost some nasty pots to players I put on a flush draw that ended up having a better kicker. And I also bet I've been bluffed by river raises by players who have missed their draws.
Thoughts? I hate being out of position without premium hands, it just sucks.
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scgolfer
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 629
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That is a tough one you need to avoid by not limping or playing that hand except maybe from the button (I dont even then). When that flop comes down you are in no-mans land, you may have the best hand, but you cant afford to protect it because of the draws and people behind you. Dont play that hand because of this exact problem. In your position I would bet a fairly large bet and see what happens, but be prepared to fold if there is any resistence.
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Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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What I do is I make a small to decent size bet that could be seen as a flush draw by another K (maybe 25% of the pot). If I'm raised, especially big, I know my kicker is beat. If they just call, they're usually on a draw.
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Fnord
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07-11-2004, 10:45 PM
Post subject: Re: Playing top pair without strong kicker when OOP
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#4 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrNoChance
You limp in with a marginal hand like KTo from mid position (no callers in front of you). You get callers behind you, but not the small blind.
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Open limping KTo MP is horrible. Depending on the table and your exact poisition, this is either a fold or raise (slow way down if a solid player with position on you calls.)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrNoChance
Flop comes K rag rag, but the rags are connecting or one-holed and there is a flush draw. Big blind checks, and you have 1-2 players after you.
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If you raised pre-flop, I would bet out 75-100% here, unraised I might check-raise if the button is likly to try to buy the pot, min-bet a miss or bottom pair or any other kind of aggression.
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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As noted above, I too stay away from K10 unless in cutoff or blinds. I would bet pot with my top pair. If you are raised, fold. If you are called it depends on the turn. Best case, you pair your kicker or make a set. Worst case, the draw improves. Middle case its a blank.
If I am called and the turn is not scary I would push it again with a 1/2 pot bet. If you are raised, fold. If you are called again, slow it down on the river if you respect your opponnent. If your opponent is a chaser and scare card does not come, or he is capable of calling it down with somthing like K2 suited bet into him again with another 1/2 pot bet.
As a rule, a lot of these players are really poor and will play K (anything) or even A high hoping for the river A. Top pair is like gold to them and they will call your bets down to the river. If you are up against what you percieve to be a solid player slow it down and don't invest too much.
Let me add that even if the draw gets there, if you are up against a solid player you can take a stab at bluffing at the pot. Maybe he will lay down AK. If you have no read, or are up against a wild/loose/chaser the bluff is probably not a good idea. It depends...lol.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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If the guy has AK and is solid, he'll raise you on the flop (or hell, he would've raised preflop). KQ could raise preflop, would very likely raise you on the flop. KJ is probably the only kicker that beats you that could likely just call you down.
But that's why you bet small on the flop. You test the waters, inviting a reraise if you're beat, and don't risk much if you are. You risk getting outdrawn on the turn, but so what? Again you have very little invested in the hand, and if the draw misses, you can bet more now.
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