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Scattershot
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05-29-2008, 08:52 PM
Post subject: Playing suited Ace/trash
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33
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Okay, I am a little confused with suited Ace/trash in late positions. I tend to limp with them much in the same way I would limp with lower pairs. Flush or generally forget it. I try to use the same logic with set hunting when calling raises but more then the 20x rule. I want to say with there being a 15:1 chance (my math could be wrong) of making a flush by the river that 40x is what I "should" go on.
I was just wondering if people could give some advice on micro-stakes playing suited ace/trash, and maybe even suited king/trash near the button. Is this bad play? Should I just fold these hands? What raises should I call?
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,519
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I generally wouldn't call ANY raises with Axs/Kxs. You're only hitting a flush draw 10% of the time, and then only hitting that flush 1/3 of the time you even make a draw. Then there's the implied odds issue of even getting paid on a scary board. I might consider calling a minraise from EP if there's a few other callers along, but that's fairly rare.
Generally I limp them behind 3+ other limpers in LP, dump them in EP/MP, complete the SB with them (with other limpers in), and raise them in LP with only a limper or two.
Postflop I give it up easily without a draw/2pr/trips.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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At $10 & $25NL FR I use the following w/ Axs & Kxs -
1) I'll open for a raise from the Bu or CO if folded to with the goal of taking down the blinds. If get called, will C-bet flop depending on read & board but won't go any further without major improvement...
2) I'll limp behind 2+ limpers in LP and w/out a maniac sitting to my left or in the blinds. I'm looking for a cheap stab at a hand that plays well multi-way -- basically at least two-pair or TP/FD to proceed post-flop.
3) I may raise a weak limper from LP ... again, I'm looking to steal, NOT make the best hand.
4) I won't cold call raises w/ this crap EXCEPT in the rare situation where you got 5-6 players who've called an EP min-raise and a lot of deep stacks. Then I might call but purely for flush potential. I'm not playing further if I don't get the made or 4-draw on the flop.
5) Most important.... Remember why you are playing the hand. You're looking to hit your flush. Don't get carried away 'cause your A4s hit on an Axx board...
A flopped flush draw can be expensive to play, 'cause a lot of times you're going to be denied pure pot odds (i.e. a PSB from villain on the flop...) and you're going to have to decide to call down a street based on implieds. And even those can be cut short, 'cause a lot of people shut down as soon as the 3rd to a flush hits the board, meaning you're likely to have a hard time playing for stacks.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Both dozer and sarbox both have good points.
Like dozer said, it's hard to play Ax sooted like we do 22 - 77 because there's ZERO deception when we hit our hand. It's almost impossible to get paid off big enough when we do hit to make it worth limp/calling or flatting.
I play 'em like Sarbox generally suggests. I'm RAISING from the BTN if I decide to play A3s after 2 limpers. It's a perfect blind/limp stealing hand with some value when you hit it. It's a terrible hand to play for value (like we do with small pp's that can hit sets). What do you with A3s on a rainbow A95 flop? It's easy to lose a big pot, and hard win anything but a small one.
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I used to play a ton of Ace-suited until I realized I was giving away a lot money. I will only limp behind with A2-A7 suited but will fold it to most raises. A8-AJ suited is questionable and depends on position and the table.
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Scattershot
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33
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Yeah, I was wondering if I was leaking more money then I was making. I rarely ever hit 4 to a flush on the flop, and I don't have stats on how much I have made when I do hit. I am quick to lay them down even when an ace hits though, maybe to quick.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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i play tournaments, so if im LP with a bunch of limpers, i'll limp. i never call a raise or raise with it though
headsup, any ace is good so i would raise there. thats about it
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xptboy
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Straight
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 187
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I generally raise Axs in BU & CO as long as it gets folded or limped to me, if somebody calls I intend to steal the pot or get the lucky flush/2pair/trips inwhich case I want to build the pot
I never call a raise with Axs, and don't mess with it out of LP
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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It depends on if I want to open light and how well I can read my opponents.
Against difficult opponents I just dump them.
Ax offsuit on the button in soft live games has recently become an over-limp for me, but the jury is still out if I like the spots I get into with them.
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