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Playing straight/flush draws

  
 
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Bizu
Old 07-07-2007, 06:29 PM     Post subject: Playing straight/flush draws #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 25
Bizu
Hi all, my first post here. I've started playing NL10 6-max about a month. I need some help playing my flush/straight draws.

Hand 1: No actually read on villain.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($6.60)
UTG ($10.25)
Hero ($17.60)
Button ($3.90)
SB ($10.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 9.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, 2 folds, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($0.85) 3, J, T (2 players)
BB bets $0.8, Hero raises to $2.1, BB calls $1.30.

Turn: ($5.05) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

(a) Do I continue betting the turn or take a free card?
(b) If I take a free card and the river does not complete my draws, do I bet or check/fold?

Hand 2: Quite the same situation. Is this too aggressive or a standard move?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($5.65)
BB ($12.50)
UTG ($5.10)
Hero ($15.70)
Button ($4.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, 8.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, 1 fold, SB calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.20) T, 4, 7 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $1.4, SB folds, BB calls $1.15.

Turn: ($4) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $13.9 (All-In)

Any thoughts?
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bigspenda73
Old 07-07-2007, 06:37 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006
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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
 Raises need to be bigger and turns should be checked at this level
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swiggidy
Old 07-07-2007, 07:37 PM #3 (permalink)  
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swiggidy will become famous soon enough
 semi-bluffing assumes FE, you likely have none.

Hand 1 - If you have no idea what he has I don't hate a fold on the flop. You only have 6 clean outs (although I doubt this is a flush draw). With QK at least your K or Q might win you the hand.

When you raise, you first have to "call" his bet. So there is .85+.8+.8 = 2.45 in the pot. Your raise is $1.3 so you're giving him almost 3:1 to call (you're essentially betting 1/2 the pot). A 3/4 PSB would be 0.75 * 2.45, or $1.80, for a total bet of $1.80 + 0.80 = $3.60.

In addition to denying him odds, it allows you to build the pot (when you have a good hand), thus balancing your ranges.

Hand 2 - Similarly, he's calling $1.15 into $2.85. This isn't as bad because it's not likely he's drawing to anything and his bet really sucks.

I really don't like the push, what are you trying to accomplish? He's unlikely to fold a T, and you can get a 7 to fold for a lot less.

Aside: As you pay attention there are people who small bet/call with a piece of the board, and ones who small bet/call with draws. If they're very predictable you can bet the turn against draws, and check behind with A high ftw, you can check behind turns vs drawers (usually flush), if the river is a blank bet and they'll fold.
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bigspenda73
Old 07-07-2007, 07:51 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

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Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
 When raising here you have to ask yourself many questions. Do players at this level lead weak and call? Does this player do this? Why am I raising? Am I raising to build the pot, buy a free card, take the pot down, etc..?

Hand 1 you're raising to take the pot down, you have a weak draw not to the nuts and there are redraws on the board (flush draw). However, raising here will rarely take this pot down. Therefore, what should we be doing? Well, look at the math, you're getting 2:1 on a flop call. If we hit our 6 outer our hand is very-well disguised. Ontop of this you probably don't even need to raise for a free card when opponents at this level wil probably just give it to you after you call their flop bet in position. Therefore I call hoping to see a free river card. The plan is then to fold to any bet on the turn that does not connect our hand. His large bet on the flop tells me we have a quite a bit of implied odds in the hand. I also didn't realize he was short which makes raising EVEN WORSE. He's committed big time on the turn so you should never be betting and you should not have raised the flop.

In hand 2 we want to raise because:
A. We likely have the best hand
B. We want to build the pot with our 9 nut out draw
C. We want to be able to take a free card on the turn

I like the flop raise in hand 2 but I take the free card 100% of the time at this level. They aren't folding any piece and they love to put aggro players on bluffs b/c they watched one too many WSOP episodes.
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Bizu
Old 08-04-2007, 11:21 PM #5 (permalink)  

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 25
Bizu
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($14.15)
MP ($3)
Button ($29.55)
SB ($10)
Hero ($10.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, J.
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Button raises to $0.3, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20, MP calls $0.20.

Flop: ($0.95) 8, T, K (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $2.7 (All-In), Button calls $2.70,

Can you guys please comment on my thinking on the flop because I'm pretty bad at playing my draws:

a. I check to see cheap turn cards. Should I bet instead?
b. After Button calls, the pot is $6.35. I think I'm about 3-1 dog to win if my draw completes at turn or river. Does justify me to just call to see the turn card or move all-in?
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Chopper
Old 08-05-2007, 04:35 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
you are simply overplaying them. they only hit around 1 in 4 times...dont play them for stacks before they hit...unless you have a read the other guy will fold.

stop raising them pf at the 10NL level, unless several people limp, and you are in late position. UTG and BB are not great places to raise connectors, imo. you dont want to "drive away" business. you want them in the pot. however, if they are already in the pot...you want to bump it up a bit to give you better odds on the flop and turn.

when you raise the flop, i feel you should take the free card on the turn. these players are so passive, they will give it. and they wont see your weakness and bet you off the pot, and they wont fold to your turn bet either. take the free cards and stop putting money in the pot when you are behind in the hand. thats spewy.

bet it on the flop, and then bet it when you hit. thats enough to make money at the micros. call their bets when your odds arent totally smashed...and that depends on how many other chumps are to act behind you...as you can call a bigger bet with idiots calling behind.

you could push combo draws to the nuts...but i wouldnt push anything else...thats spewy, too.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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