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heat680
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06-05-2006, 10:35 PM
Post subject: Playing small PP.
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 71
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I was wondering how everyone plays small PP. 22 - 66
How deep into a hand will you take them? And will you lead into a flop with them if you don't set?
I generally will call min-raises with them, lead into a flop, and fold to any overt aggression. Am I too passive?
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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If its folded round to me preflop i'll raise all of them, If i get more than 1 caller and im OOP and i don't hit a set or some straight draw then i'll likely just check fold on the flop, I'll CB any almost any flop if i get a caller and its checked to me, ill also play exactly the same if i hit my set, i'll fire out the usual CB and hope the other player hit some of the board. If im calling a raise - I'll call if both our stacks are 10x the initial raise - If I think the initial raiser is a bit of a fish, then I'll just check fold the flop if I miss my set. however, if the raiser is a good solid player, then I'll play my sets fast and will CR or raise the flop if i hit my set OR if the middle card is a certain suit (say this session I use diamonds) if the middle card is a diamond ill play like I hit a set. This makes it much harder for other players to read you. Notice that this is only the case with good players and it is unlikely to be as effective against fish as they are likely to just call you down and value betting makes up for that.
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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if i wanna play a hand i will almost always raise preflop... pocket pairs i will always play therefore will always raise preflop and bet the flop and fold to aggression...
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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First in or behind 1 or 2 limpers I will make a standard raise with any pocket pair, behind 3 limpers I will limp the lower pairs. I use the same cbet standards for my other hands and often take down pots on the flop with that cbet, I fold to any aggression if I dont make a set though.
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saywhat2
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 113
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I don’t raise with 22-66 pre flop. I try to limp in and hit a set. I like the old saying no set no bet. There are exceptions. Say I call a raise of 5 x the BB with a pair of 6’s. And I am heads up. I will check if I am first to act, and if my opponent shows weakness (With a week ass bet) and it looks like he missed the flop or the flop is scary to him I will check raise strong. If I am up against 4 players and I miss my hand I let it go.
I see people get crushed raising small pocket pairs all the time. Example. Guy in early po raises it up 4x the BB with 66. Guy on the button has 99. Just calls, flop comes down 552. Man with 66 in trouble.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by saywhat2
I don’t raise with 22-66 pre flop. I try to limp in and hit a set. I like the old saying no set no bet. There are exceptions. Say I call a raise of 5 x the BB with a pair of 6’s. And I am heads up. I will check if I am first to act, and if my opponent shows weakness (With a week ass bet) and it looks like he missed the flop or the flop is scary to him I will check raise strong. If I am up against 4 players and I miss my hand I let it go.
I see people get crushed raising small pocket pairs all the time. Example. Guy in early po raises it up 4x the BB with 66. Guy on the button has 99. Just calls, flop comes down 552. Man with 66 in trouble.
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Its easier to get paid off for a set in a raised pot than in a limped pot and it is also easier to take a pot down when you miss and are the preflop aggressor. If I am in the situation you just gave then yea, thats exactly how Id play preflop, raise to 4xBB in EP. If button calls and flop comes 552 I would make a standard cbet of about 2/3 the pot, if Im raised I am most likely folding. If you cant lay down when a cbet is challenged, then yea, dont raise preflop, otherwise its a good play to make.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by saywhat2
I don’t raise with 22-66 pre flop. I try to limp in and hit a set. I like the old saying no set no bet.
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The higher NLHE ring stakes you play the more this technique will begin to break down.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by saywhat2
I don’t raise with 22-66 pre flop. I try to limp in and hit a set. I like the old saying no set no bet.
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The higher NLHE ring stakes you play the more this technique will begin to break down. |
Some crazy sTAggro-Nut-Job like Fnord will iso-raise your ass with 2 cards that don't suck and only play a big pot if he can beat bottom set. Otherwise it's highway robbery. False Implied Odds FTW!
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geoffm33
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 166
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I've seen Lukie mention the 10x pocket-pair "rule" lately and I'd like to get some comments on it. I take it he isn't too fond of it.
For a newb like me, when should you get away from your low PP's preflop??
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djzcko
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by geoffm33
I've seen Lukie mention the 10x pocket-pair "rule" lately and I'd like to get some comments on it. I take it he isn't too fond of it.
For a newb like me, when should you get away from your low PP's preflop??
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Even at $25nl, you can be profitable when you hit your set only 8.5% of the time on the flop (After 27k hands, that is my pathetic set-rate on the flop). The 10x rule is based on hitting it 11.75%, so as long as you are staying true to the 10x rule, then it is a very profitable call on limits up through $50nl at a minimum. I recently moved to $50nl and still get paid off handsomely on my sets...
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by saywhat2
I don’t raise with 22-66 pre flop. I try to limp in and hit a set. I like the old saying no set no bet. There are exceptions. Say I call a raise of 5 x the BB with a pair of 6’s. And I am heads up. I will check if I am first to act, and if my opponent shows weakness (With a week ass bet) and it looks like he missed the flop or the flop is scary to him I will check raise strong. If I am up against 4 players and I miss my hand I let it go.
I see people get crushed raising small pocket pairs all the time. Example. Guy in early po raises it up 4x the BB with 66. Guy on the button has 99. Just calls, flop comes down 552. Man with 66 in trouble.
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If the man with 66 gets in trouble in this spot, he's a terrible poker player and he should quit before he loses all of his money.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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omg I don't want to talk about the 10:1 rule. It's horrendously awful. That's all.
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geoffm33
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
omg I don't want to talk about the 10:1 rule. It's horrendously awful. That's all.
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That's why I posted!!!!!!!! 
I wanted to get **your** opinion on it.
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jameseyb
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sapley, Cambs.
Posts: 169
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And this rule is??
Is it the one where you call all raises _up to_ 1/10th of your, or your opponents', stack?
If it's not, then please tell me about it. Anything that makes PP play/set play better is a must. (even though I never seem to get PPs...)
J
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geoffm33
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jameseyb
And this rule is??
Is it the one where you call all raises _up to_ 1/10th of your, or your opponents', stack?
If it's not, then please tell me about it. Anything that makes PP play/set play better is a must. (even though I never seem to get PPs...)
J
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That's the one I am referring to. On the face of it, it seems logical but if there is a flaw and could be considered a leak then I want to avoid it.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by geoffm33
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jameseyb
And this rule is??
Is it the one where you call all raises _up to_ 1/10th of your, or your opponents', stack?
If it's not, then please tell me about it. Anything that makes PP play/set play better is a must. (even though I never seem to get PPs...)
J
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That's the one I am referring to. On the face of it, it seems logical but if there is a flaw and could be considered a leak then I want to avoid it. |
I think it’s a tad more complicated than that. Making a set doesn’t mean they ended up with a hand. You can’t stack someone unless they have a hand. A standard raise of 4xbb is more often AQ/AK/AJ etc than a made hand like AA/KK/QQ etc. Given that, you can’t expect to stack people every time you hit. It’s like less than 50% of the time for me. Also factor in the player(s) in the hand. If they are too careful to stack off easily then you need to lower your chances that you can stack them. Factor all that in and I rarely call raises larger than 5xbb with pp.
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