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Blinky
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08-26-2005, 06:37 PM
Post subject: Playing a set with a partially coordinated flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: nutpeddlers anonymous
Posts: 459
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Hi guys. I don't have a HH but in general, and absent of reads, is there a recommended way to play such a hand?
Assume full table.
UTG you've got a mid PP (say   ) and limp looking to catch a set. Two other limpers follow and the blinds complete for a five-way pot.
Flop is   :Kh:. Blinds check to you.
How do you proceed, and how much consideration do you give to someone holding xh yh. Do you bet potsize to protect? Bet for value?
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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Bet half to 2/3rds of the pot to see where you're at. It's really dangerous to give a free card in a 5 way pot with 3 limpers and the blinds when you have middle set. Your hand is probably the best right now, you should bet it for value/information.
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OopsYouLost
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 28
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Depending on stack sizes, your table image, your opponents playing styles, etc...you could play it various ways but one thing is sure, you're in very good position. I personally like to slowplay this and hope the turn is a blank and be able to check/raise any raiser but that's me...
If the turn is a scare card and someone overbets the pot I'd probably fold here without a read: with 4 other limpers anything is possible so I'd give 'em credit, if the bet is weak I raise to gain information.
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All-in...
All-in...
All-in on the river!
- Creedence Clearwater Revival
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OopsYouLost
Depending on stack sizes, your table image, your opponents playing styles, etc...you could play it various ways but one thing is sure, you're in very good position. I personally like to slowplay this and hope the turn is a blank and be able to check/raise any raiser but that's me...
If the turn is a scare card and someone overbets the pot I'd probably fold here without a read: with 4 other limpers anything is possible so I'd give 'em credit, if the bet is weak I raise to gain information.
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With 5 to the flop i would be reluctant to try a slowplay here unless i knew with a pretty high degree of confidence that the button was really LAG and would bluff at the pot. Giving 4 other players a free turn when you're holding a set is -EV i think without that LAG read on the LP players. Bet your hand because it is the best the majority of the time. Over-slowplaying is a leak in my book. Slowplay boats, quads, top set when the board is drawless, flopped flushes and str8s... not middle set with a 2flush + 2 consecutive card board and 5 to the flop.
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DimitriT
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 614
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That's a pot sized or more bet for me right there. I want TPTK and 2pr to stay in and the rest to pay. You have to overbet here because with a couple of callers the late position guys will get odds to stay in. 2/3 won't cut it multiway.
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OopsYouLost
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 28
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OopsYouLost
Depending on stack sizes, your table image, your opponents playing styles, etc...you could play it various ways but one thing is sure, you're in very good position. I personally like to slowplay this and hope the turn is a blank and be able to check/raise any raiser but that's me...
If the turn is a scare card and someone overbets the pot I'd probably fold here without a read: with 4 other limpers anything is possible so I'd give 'em credit, if the bet is weak I raise to gain information.
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With 5 to the flop i would be reluctant to try a slowplay here unless i knew with a pretty high degree of confidence that the button was really LAG and would bluff at the pot. Giving 4 other players a free turn when you're holding a set is -EV i think without that LAG read on the LP players. Bet your hand because it is the best the majority of the time. Over-slowplaying is a leak in my book. Slowplay boats, quads, top set when the board is drawless, flopped flushes and str8s... not middle set with a 2flush + 2 consecutive card board and 5 to the flop. |
As I rethink this, you're probably right. It is a risky move to slowplay here. My bad! In this case the trapper might become the trapped one if I let them draw.
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All-in...
All-in...
All-in on the river!
- Creedence Clearwater Revival
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Yeah; there is no way you check here.
I like 3/4's the pot in this instance. It should get a K to call you down, and perhaps some people drawing against odds.
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Checkways
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08-26-2005, 08:36 PM
Post subject: Re: Playing a set with a partially coordinated flop
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#8 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 249
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I bet this because I want to build this small pot. A 3/4 bet is so small that you should get callers with even middle pair. Depending on your opponents, a pot sized bet will not protect your hand against the draw because the bet is going to be so small. They will take a shot at you for the implied odds of catching their draw at least until the turn.
This is a hand where I'm willing to string along the draws (while still building pot). I want to win money with my set, and if they hit their draw I haven't invested much and the pot is unlikely to get out of control. On top of that, I will still have outs.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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huh? how would he still get callers with middle pair for a 3/4's pot sized bet?
Could you explain your post a little more checkways?
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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I don't think any thing weaker than TPGK or a flush draw/OESD would be calling a 3/4ths pot sized bet. Maybe a ridiculously fishy loose maniac would call it down with A7.........And he won't be playing for very m uch longer  .
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guitarhero14
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08-27-2005, 02:41 AM
Post subject: Re: Playing a set with a partially coordinated flop
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#11 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .05/.10 NL
Posts: 270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Checkways
I bet this because I want to build this small pot. A 3/4 bet is so small that you should get callers with even middle pair. Depending on your opponents, a pot sized bet will not protect your hand against the draw because the bet is going to be so small. They will take a shot at you for the implied odds of catching their draw at least until the turn.
This is a hand where I'm willing to string along the draws (while still building pot). I want to win money with my set, and if they hit their draw I haven't invested much and the pot is unlikely to get out of control. On top of that, I will still have outs.
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What stakes do you play at? If you play micros then your reasoning is good, but anything larger, a pot size bet will do just fine.
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-guitar
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missmisery
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 31
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I'd definetaly throw a pot-size bet here. If the pot had been raised preflop, I would try a check-raise since someone would most likely bet at this pot. However, with 5 limpers, you need to bet. You can expect them to have weak hands like connectors, suited cards, etc so you definetaly don't want to give them a free card. So just bet the pot and hope someone will call you with a hand like KJ.
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Checkways
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08-27-2005, 09:12 PM
Post subject: Re: Playing a set with a partially coordinated flop
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#13 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 249
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by guitarhero14
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Checkways
I bet this because I want to build this small pot. A 3/4 bet is so small that you should get callers with even middle pair. Depending on your opponents, a pot sized bet will not protect your hand against the draw because the bet is going to be so small. They will take a shot at you for the implied odds of catching their draw at least until the turn.
This is a hand where I'm willing to string along the draws (while still building pot). I want to win money with my set, and if they hit their draw I haven't invested much and the pot is unlikely to get out of control. On top of that, I will still have outs.
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What stakes do you play at? If you play micros then your reasoning is good, but anything larger, a pot size bet will do just fine. |
I misread his post. I thought it was just him and the two blinds. Didn't realize it was five way. Pot sized bet is fine unless you're playing on a really tight table post-flop.
I play $100 NL.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by missmisery
I'd definetaly throw a pot-size bet here. If the pot had been raised preflop, I would try a check-raise since someone would most likely bet at this pot. However, with 5 limpers, you need to bet. You can expect them to have weak hands like connectors, suited cards, etc so you definetaly don't want to give them a free card. So just bet the pot and hope someone will call you with a hand like KJ.
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I'd lead out both in a limped and a raised pot. In a raised pot, it's reasonably likely that the preflop raiser has a K in his hand and will give you tons of action if you lead into him. If I get raised sometimes I'll reraise or sometimes I'll call, then check-raise on the turn, but on a slightly coordinated flop I'd lean more towards reraising. An exception being that if the flop came K, 6, 4 with two diamonds with the K of diamonds, and I got raised, I would assume that my opponent didn't have a flush draw since he probably either has A-A or paired his K, which means he doesn't have two diamonds in his hand.
Another reason I don't like slow-playing these hands is that even if my opponents don't have straight or flush draws, the cards which would complete these drawing hands will probably be scare cards for strong second best hands that would have otherwise given me a lot more action, like two pair or a lesser set. I remember I played a hand where I had 5-5, on a flop of 5, 9, Q. I bet and this guy called. The turn was a J, I bet, the other guy called. The river was a K, I checked, the guy bet fairly small, I called and he turned over 9-9. I then told him that I would've gone all-in on the flop as he took down the medium-small pot.
I'm guessing you're a fan of Elliott Smith, missmisery?
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