Originally Posted by Tasha

UTG opening with 4x usually means something pretty big. Even 99+ seems a little wide.

Originally Posted by celtic123

I'm thinking flatcalling is transparent though.

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

That's a standard raise size for any holding UTG, whether it's AA or 87s. Hell, sometimes I'll raise to 5x, 6x, 7x, 8x, etc if there a retards in the blinds that will call the bet with worse.

Originally Posted by pdk1010

I give the utg open the following range 99+,AJs+,KQs, AQo+



77-99-Im inclined to include these with the 22-66 group although i feel like 3 betting light here is an option to be considered

Originally Posted by JKDS

It depends

No really cmon now.

UTG is a super nit

UTG is a super lag

UTG is tagish

UTG is a passive feesh

MP1 is a maniac who 3bets every hand

BB calls 3bets with every hand pre

UTG folds to 3bets 75% of the time

UTG plays fit fold post

UTG cbets 2% of the time

UTG cbets 100% of the tiem and double barrels 100% of the time

I could go on.

Originally Posted by bhaley66

Wat? You raise 87s UTG?

Originally Posted by Donachello

Anyway, I rambled a bit but whatever.

Originally Posted by bhaley66

If that is the opening range you give UTG villain why would you 3bet 77-99? First off, your behind his opening range, 2nd and most important, what is his continuing to 3bet range? Far ahead of 77-99...

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

he's got a picture of a beagle as his avatar

Originally Posted by pdk1010

i dont think his continuing range here changes much from his utg opening range, if anything maybe throw out aq, kq but this will be the minority of times.

Im prolly overthinking this but since im approaching it as a practice in theory my thinking is that theres only a certain % of flops that hit his range hard, i.e. akx, axx, kxx, kjx, kqx, etc on flops like this and moreso on flops that arent this my 3bet may get a check and free turn card, set up a semi bluff opportunity, hit a set, and/or serve to make sure im not only 3 betting monsters only in the spot


feel free to shoot holes in my logic just help me understand why its flawed while u do

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

Ok, 2 hands on him and he's 0/0 over that large sample, and bought in full, and he's got a picture of a beagle as his avatar.

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Usually the beagle is a reg. If it was a pomeranian, doberman, or a bulldog then it's a fish.

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

What about a pitbull? Just some random asshole?

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

What about a pitbull? Just some random asshole?

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Does it ever depend on your image at the table? There's rarely any discussion about this in the BC but some at the higher levels. Why?

Originally Posted by Donachello

Or let's say you flat with 33 and the flop comes down 467r. The UTG checks, you check and the CO checks. The BTN bets min and you feel obligated to call. The next card is a 3. What the hell do you do? You're still behind all sorts of straights and higher sets out of position for two more streets of action. Not a great prospect if you ask me.

I'm more inclined to flat hands like 77-JJ here because 1) they can sort of stand up to some extent should a squeeze occur. Additionally, hands like 99-JJ not only have showdown value should the UTG whiff the flop with a hand like AK. Also, should you flop a set with one of these hands there is a higher chance that the UTG raiser's range has also gotten a piece of the flop and will be less likely to fold.

I'm always 3betting KK+ (unless the guy is like 1/0 over 500 hands) since you don't want a lot of people flatting behind you with trash that could easily hit a disguised monster in position against you when you have a hand that is hard to lay down. Also, you fare well against both the UTG's 4betting and flatting ranges. QQ is a bit more interesting since a lot of people at FR don't stack off with less than AK and KK+. This makes stacking off a bad proposition and you still would prefer to have a bunch of trash hands IP vs you. At this point I think the dynamic between you and the UTG raiser becomes much more important. However, you could just go ahead and 3bet and fold to a 4b or shove.

Anyway, I rambled a bit but whatever.

Originally Posted by ManickossDaronn

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Originally Posted by pdk1010

77-99-Im inclined to include these with the 22-66 group although i feel like 3 betting light here is an option to be considered

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Biggest fish is the pitbull with the exception of the player with a picture of themself with sunglasses on.

Originally Posted by surviva316

this thread is just wow.

back on track: my standard play 10 hands in on someone who seems reggish would be to snap flat 22-TT here. this COULD change if someone left to act is a mega maniac squeezer but that's so rare at micro FR games to an UTG open and UTG+1 flat, that it hardly needs to be dignified. i could 3b JJ/QQ here some of the time if for whatever reason i felt like he was going to be PFR/c'ing OOP WAY too much, but i doubt i'd have the read just 10 hands in. my standard is to flat those hands too (and only becomes moreso the case the more lose fish there are left to act or the more squeeze crazed maniacs there are left to act.)

it's obv like 1 in a million that i don't 3b KK/AA here (but of course JKDS may very well point out that there are possible spots where it might be most ev, because there are)