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IowaSkinsFan
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10-30-2004, 02:34 PM
Post subject: Playing mid pairs.
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Normally with pocket 7's or lower i limp in and with pocket 8's or higher I bet3-5x blinds, knowing that i'll most likely be dealing with overcards.
Let's say I have 88 and raised 5x blinds and 2 others are in. The flop is 7 4 2 Rainbow. I'm in last position and the 2 people before me check. if each has a bigger chip stack than me, what do u do? Do you attempt to take the pot right there? or do you wait till the turn and see if another over card comes up? or what?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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I had to simulate this to check, but WORST case overcard scenario, they are both on suited, matching (3 to flush now), non-overlapping overcards (say AJs and KQs).
You win like 40-20-20 3way, but dominate either hand HTH. So, bet to force one guy out. So, I would say Pot sized bet or more is apropos.
You are hammered if they have HIGHER pockets or flopped a set. If they have a set, they will probably push, although if the first guy folds to your bet
they 2nd guy might push to bluff you out if he's maniac.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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With the 2 checks before me I would assume that no one had a higher pocket, or at least not one besides KK or AA.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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if i was silly and called ur 5xd pf w./ 7s, I might check raise the flop
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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Bet pot or 3/4 pot and hope to take it down uncontested. What are you going to do when an A or K hits the turn?
If you are smooth called or check raised be careful the rest of the hand.
I limp with mid pairs unless it is short handed. If you miss the set and there are overs let it go. If there are no overs, see above.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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okietalker
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Party 100/200NL
Posts: 53
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Why raise with 88?
Limp and set or keep it small.
A flush draw with two over cards is a 52.3% favorite over you.
I don't do coinflips personally, but I do tend to play this one everyone once in a while. If I can be reasonably certain my opponent has the mid pair, I will play this hand on occasion.
The main reason I play this is because I feel that it is the wrong way to play it and I like to punish people for playing wrong. (I mean no disrespect by saying that).
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Just my opinion (and I'm probably wrong) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
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iSHACKABUKU
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
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When i have PP 8's for example what ill do is raise an amount which 2-3 others will most likely only call me on. Ill hope for a flop which is similar to the one you used in your example. When that happens and especially when I am in late position i will bet the pot or close to it. If i get called by lets say just one person. I will make him PAY huge to see every card there after.
I dont want to take a chance and have a overcard drop on me.
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Drop it like its hot *the flop*
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DavSimon
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 813
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It depends what level you are playing at. In $.25/.50 or $.50/1 games a 3x BB raise will probably get called by everything from low to middle suited connectors to overs like K-10 and up.
A 4-5x BB raise will likely take out other low PP and low to middle suited connectors.....leaving you with over cards or higher A-Xs. With a flop like you described I would feel pretty good about having eliminated 5-6s, 8-9s, A-3s...and I would feel pretty good about firing out a 2/3 pot sized bet trying to pick it up right there. If you get a caller then you will just have to see what the turn brings and go from there. Limping is alright as well, but you will not flop a set most of the time - so in late position I like to eliminate some of the competition so I have an idea what I'm up against.....with that flop checking the turn (giving them a free card) could be the end of your 8's. Everyone has thier own style, I am trying to play fewer hands - but when I am in one - play it very aggressively.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Me personally - any pair smaller than jacks I am trying to limp with. If I flop a set I play it semi-aggressively or aggressively (depending on the cards on the board), either to try to maximize profits, or cut out other players if the board seems dangerous. I don't view those hands as raising hands because you are almost never going to flop all unders, which means most of the time that you don't have a set, you're beat. And, at least in my group, anyone with top pair decent kicker is going to fight you all the way if you just try to steal the pot with your underpair.
There are always exceptions and one big one is heads-up play, but at a standard table, five or more players and usually at least three seeing every flop, I don't bother raising small pairs. I want to limp in and I want to cut the hand loose if I don't hit a set. I think of these hands as snakes in the grass... given the right opportunity they are immensely profitable, so I use them for as little money as it takes to get in the pot. I'd rather raise with high cards (or preferably high pairs).
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faustas
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
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punish the drawers!
you have a high statistical advantage over, for instance, AK and AQs, so you have to make them pay a lot to see the remaining cards
i would still be a little bit worried about a loose passive caller with 56s tho (this can probably happen if you were in a 25nl 6max table).
cuz you will be really doomed if you turn a set.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by faustas
punish the drawers!
you have a high statistical advantage over, for instance, AK and AQs, so you have to make them pay a lot to see the remaining cards
i would still be a little bit worried about a loose passive caller with 56s tho (this can probably happen if you were in a 25nl 6max table).
cuz you will be really doomed if you turn a set.
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Welcome to FTR! I can tell you're gonna fit right in.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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iSHACKABUKU
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
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I find that in this situation the people who called your PFR are gonna assume 1: u have pocket pairs and maybe run..............2: Assume you have overcards and are in there same situation..........
I dont particularly like this situation but what I would do is raise, and I mean RAISE large, try to steal the pot or have one person call you, cross your fingers! hopefully your in good position then raise again!
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Drop it like its hot *the flop*
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Shauneyzboyz
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 31
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In a ring game...I don't raise big preflop with anything less than 10s.
As you get less players in the game, your 8/8 looks more valuable and is worth a decent raise.
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In the poker game of life, women are the fucking rake!
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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faustas - I don't agree that 88 vs. AK or AQs "has a big statistical edge". I used the simulator and it's 11:9 for AKos and 52:47 for AQs. Those are edges sure, but not big ones (unless it's a presidential election).
Not sure that means you should call or raise - but "big statistical edge" is not a good reason to raise here, IMHO.
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