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Playing the button and Small Blind

  
 
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joshuadzl
Old 11-27-2005, 10:35 AM     Post subject: Playing the button and Small Blind #1 (permalink)  
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Preface: I'm working on indentifying leaks in my game. My sample size is very small, around 5k. I just started using PT so bare with me here. I know my sample size is far from ideal, but its all I got to work with. Don't hate. Rilla got buttrabies.

Some overall statistics concerning me:
VP$IP: 24.71%
PFR: 6.23%
Aggression Factor: 2.45

Button statistics:
VP$IP: 38.27%
CCPF%: 2.47%
PFR%: 6.91%

SB Statistics:
VP$IP: 49.17%
CCPF%: 0%
PFR%: 6.41%

To the meat of it - playing the button and small blind, I've heard many pros state that they'll often limp in if the pot goes unraised with any two cards on the button and in the SB. I've heard some even say (jokingly) they don't even need to look at the cards. 72o, they're in, no problem. I've also heard others say they play the game strictly by the saying that Fnord says, "Pump it or dump it". Also, when I've heard this strategy said to be used is when you're holding a garbage hand, not a premium obvisouly.

Well, I've been doing the limping. Has it been working? So far, it doesn't seem so and what is really disturbing to me is the button is a LOSING position for me. Only by $4 bucks, so obviously one hand can change this position into a minor winning one, but being "even" on the button is pretty screwed up. On the flip side, the SB is acctually profitable for me using this method.

Three top losing hands for me on the button: QJ, QT, 22.
Three top losing hands for me in the SB: AQ, A5, KQ

I haven't reviewed the hand histories of why I lost these hands, but one thing is obvious. I'm getting attached to *mediorce* hands when limping. That I've identified and can deal with. Oh, and also, as I'm going throw my stats, most of those I did pump preflop it looks like so they may be moot points in this post.

I guess my main question here is this limp strategy a poor way to play? I mean, if I have just two limpers before me I'm getting over 3:1 on my money to see a flop. That rare occasion the flop comes 727 with my 72 in the pocket, is that gonna pay off for all the failed limps? Do I need to drop this strategy all together?
 
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DoGGz
Old 11-27-2005, 10:48 AM #2 (permalink)  
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If i'm on the Button or the CO and I'm coming in I'm putting out a raise. The only hands I limp AS first into the pot are 99-22 (but will raise from the CO and Button). Be willing to raise a wider range of hands from the CO and the Button.

The SB you have to think about what type of hand you have. K5 is a crappy hand, but plays well in a blind battle. 76s is a good multiway hand but plays crappy in a blind battle. K5 is a crappy hand and plays like trash in multiway pots. You get my point.


Most importantly, it depends on your table, and how they are playing.
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johnny_fish
Old 11-27-2005, 11:19 AM #3 (permalink)  
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position/VP$P/PFR

All/14/6
CO/16/10
BN/19/11
SB/20/8
BB/9/5
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finky
Old 11-27-2005, 02:13 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Definatly think you need to be more position sensative with you PFRs. Do you raise the same hands from all positions? Some hands (high SC, mid PP) play much better with position and initiative. If you see people limping, their not sure of their hands and would like to see a flop, tell them they have to outflop you.

Here's my stats though theres quite a bit of 6-max in there
http://snipurl.com/k9m0
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r8ed
Old 11-28-2005, 03:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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r8ed
I wouldn't worry about the hands you posted above. Those are find to play in those positions. Just think to yourself before you play that you are more than willing to fold them if you don't hit a very favorable flop. Don't chase that 3rd two if you face a raise on the flop when you miss. Just lay them down.

I would raise AQ and KQ in the SB if there is no raise before you. Yes you are out of position, but you most likely have the best starting hand. C-bet the flop. Your stats will turn positive.
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pgil
Old 11-28-2005, 04:01 PM #6 (permalink)  
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im not sure, but i would think you would need better than 3:1 to make 72 a callable hand, even from the SB. That is if you are only going to play it for the miracle flop. However, if you have one of those lovely tables that limp-fold all day long, then your cards dont really matter so much.
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
 
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EricE
Old 11-28-2005, 04:31 PM #7 (permalink)  
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What I limp with on the button is directly related to how many callers there have been, to a lesser degree, how aggressive the table is preflop. If the table is rarely limped preflop then you might expect a raise from the SB or BB. If that’s the case then limping junk on the button is not profitable when I have to drop it to a raise. That is rare though; for my tables anyway.

Mostly, I evaluate my cards and say something like “for this hand I need 4 limpers to come in”. I value my junk hands by how many I think I need in the flop to make it profitable. I often find myself saying things like, “ok, 2 limpers (plus the blinds which I expect one limper there)…if these last two before me call then I’ll limp in”. For something like 72o you need pretty much everyone to limp in (IMO).
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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Lukie
Old 11-29-2005, 02:28 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Unless you are a very skilled player and you plan on taking the pot with skill and without showdown, just muck the worthless hands like 27o in a full ring game in all situations. I don't see the point in playing it even after the whole table limps. What kind of flop are you expecting to see? Maybe a hand like 45o or something that has potential, but hands like T4o, J2o, 38o, etc. need not be played from any position, even if you are getting 20:1 odds from the SB.
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