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06-28-2004, 07:01 PM
Post subject: Playing the Ace Kicker
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#1 (permalink)
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{This post has been removed}
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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This is a pretty standard bluff board for me, since it's very unlikely it hit anyone. Although in this case 87 puts out a straight draw.
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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I have used this in heads-up a lot. It really helps. If the board pairs, I raise. I have won more pots than I lose this way. If I get re-raised, I consider folding. If someone raises to me, I consider re-raising (depending on the size of their raise)
However, I have been in a lot of games that the other player seems to be playing "what-doesn't-this-guy-have" and playing it better than I do.
I've also been caught playing that game when the other player does have something and I create his trap for him. When this happens, I usually lose pretty big. I have small blind in a SnG. It is folded to me, I raise minimum with my A7o. Big blind re-raises minimum. I feel I can bluff this guy out, so I go all in. He calls with pocket 9s. I hit an A on the turn to save my ass from this huge mistake.
In multi-player pots, I don't think I would do too much with this. If there are 4 people in the pot, the pot may be too big to consider a pot-sized stab. Again, I'm trying to weigh the many small wins with how big the losses will be. I think in multi-way pots. You would lose too much the one time you lost to make up for the wins that you had.
I welcome anyone second-guessing me. michael1123 usually has stats to back up anything. Maybe you could come up with some for this.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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fishstick
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 1,405
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using your example, if i'm either first to bet, or it's checked to me, i take a stab at it.
like you said, a raise back to me and i'm out, or if called and nothing hits for me on the turn, i'll check it and am out to a reasonable bet.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Pure bluffing into a multi-pot is almost never a good idea. Particulary with the lot I play with...
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fishstick
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 1,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Pure bluffing into a multi-pot is almost never a good idea. Particulary with the lot I play with...
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isn't it sklansky that repeatedly says you can't bluff people that don't know how to play?
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fishstick
isn't it sklansky that repeatedly says you can't bluff people that don't know how to play?
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Yes, I've heard that from him before. he must have gotten it after playing a few rounds at Party Poker. 
I played at a free bar tournament.
I was delt AA in late position. This was the 30th (ish) hand of the game and I hadn't played a single hand so far. I raised big, 3 callers.
The flop came J69 rainbow. 2 checks to me. The guy behind me was reaching for chips already. I raised all-in. He quickly called. He called so quick I knew I was in for trouble. After everyone else folded he flipped over a 64o. I was amazed. He had a very crappy hand.
I caught a A on the turn to secure my win and I doubled up on him. But when bad people play 64o with a pre-flop raise, and call an all in with bottom pair under kicker, I know I'm not bluffing crap that game.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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fishstick
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 1,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
I caught a A on the turn to secure my win and I doubled up on him. But when bad people play 64o with a pre-flop raise, and call an all in with bottom pair under kicker, I know I'm not bluffing crap that game.
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good lord - at least you didn't cracked.
maybe you could explain ahead of time if you did want to bluff, that way he might get it. 
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Yeah, heads up I will take a stab at the pot if the board pairs like that, and maybe even if it doesn't pair. It's not a bluff if you think you have the best hand. Three-way I would do it if its checked to me or maybe if I am first to act. Any more than that in the pot and I would not try it.
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{This post has been removed}
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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In that case, I definitely fire out a bet, backing up my preflop raise. They probably don't believe you have an 8, but you could have an overpair. If they didn't hit a pair or a draw, or have an overpair as well, they're probably gone.
And the thought that you may just have an 8 tends to keep people from chasing with 2 over cards.
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{This post has been removed}
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