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Playing 2nd best hands OOP.

  
 
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pokerroomace
Old 01-14-2007, 07:51 PM     Post subject: Playing 2nd best hands OOP. #1 (permalink)  
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How do you play AJo, AJs, AQo, TT or JJ UTG or UTG+1 in FR, at the lower stakes, at a table where a high number of players will see a flop? (even if you raise)

Also, how do you play hands like AK-AJ and JJ-TT when you are on the SB and a lot of players have limped in (3 or 4+) and you are likely to get a few callers if you raise 4xbb + 1xbb for every limper?

By limping you lose a lot of the hands value, because hitting TP on the flop with 5+ players isn't strong at all.
by raising you are reducing the number of players in the pot (although you may still have 3 or 4 seeing the flop) and you are building a pot OOP.

What do you do with AJo UTG? Fold it?

All replies appreciated. Thanks in advance
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Miffed22001
Old 01-14-2007, 09:07 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 AJo preflop is an age old arguement. IMO, raise. IMO always raise and get the pot big, our hand range versus a group of opponents is still dominant.
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pokerroomace
Old 01-14-2007, 10:00 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
AJo preflop is an age old arguement. IMO, raise. IMO always raise and get the pot big, our hand range versus a group of opponents is still dominant.
what about when you're in the sb with a lot of limpers?

also, do you also play AT UTG? I actually fold it. Again you're ahead against a lot of average hands.
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zenbitz
Old 01-15-2007, 06:41 AM #4 (permalink)  
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AJo UTG - I think limp, raise, fold are all equally marginal. Raising is kinda bad unless the table is agressive enough so that AK/AQ will reraise behind you.

I guess the looser the table, the more I like a raise rather than a limp. You can limp on a tight-passive table.

In SB, with a good hand, I will almost always raise, because I also like to occasinally pot it with air.
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Jupit3r
Old 01-15-2007, 06:58 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I too raise AJx in a loose table. But how much should the raise be? Sklansky says in NLHE: T&P that you don't want big pots with hands like that in loose tables, since they tend to be weak without help from the board. Therefore I usually make it 3xBB from early and middle positions.
Anything wrong with my thinking?

JJ, TT: These I tend to limp with from EP as set catchers. Sometimes I win a big pot without a set because they're quite well concealed as overpairs when limped with.
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pokerroomace
Old 01-15-2007, 01:19 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupit3r
I too raise AJx in a loose table. But how much should the raise be? Sklansky says in NLHE: T&P that you don't want big pots with hands like that in loose tables, since they tend to be weak without help from the board. Therefore I usually make it 3xBB from early and middle positions.
Anything wrong with my thinking?

JJ, TT: These I tend to limp with from EP as set catchers. Sometimes I win a big pot without a set because they're quite well concealed as overpairs when limped with.
I've heard about the smaller raise from early position. But I don't think it is a good idea. The small raise gets you a lot of limpers at some tables (especially loose tables). Also, once you have 1 limper the player behind has better odds and so decides to call. And then the player behind has even better odds so he decides to call. You end up with 5 players in the hand because they all have great odds to play.

Also, I don't like limping TT and JJ UTG. I think that they are strong enough hands as they are. And can win pots without any additional help from the board sometimes.
Also, when you do hit sets - you've hit a set with a bigger pot and therefore you have a better opportunity to stack somebody.
The only thing that you gain by limping is 1 or 2 extra limpers (players you could potentially stack when you hit).
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