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Dave Davis
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11-01-2006, 08:04 AM
Post subject: Play from a SB
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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Hi, guys! I play microNL at pokerstars. I have a question and I haven't found an answer anywhere. It doesn't seem so important but anyway... How do you play preflop from blinds? Against a raise (i have read somewhere and it is logical) you shouldn't play anything you wouldn't play against a raise in LP because you got terrible position postflop.
I am more interested in which hands you complete SB if everyone just limp in? I do that with almost any ace, king, maybe even queen (jack sometimes) and with almost any two suited cards and unsuited connectors. How about unsuited one gappers? I know this is not the exast science, I would just like to know which hands you play in that case because I got a feeling that I play too many hands in that case.
GL at the tables!
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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Depends.
If the raiser is a loose aggressive dork then you can open your range up some. If he raises 3% of his hands then you're against AA/KK and shouldn't play with a pocket pair looking for a set (unless you are deep stacked).
If it's limped to me, I call with all kinds of shit. You need to look at your odds. If 7 people have called in front of you it would be wrong not to call.
Another thing to consider is what you should be raising with from the SB. A couple limpers around to you and the table is weak tight. Try some raises here. You'd be suprised at the number of times people are trying to see the flop with trash, but fold when someone smacks in a raise.
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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All right! All kinds of shit seems like I don't play too loose in that case. Thanks for the reply. That means 74o for example might me good to limp in, right?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dave Davis
All right! Thanks for the reply. That means 74o for example might be good to raise to 5xbb from the SB, right?
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FYP
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Completing from the SB is a pretty personal thing. I don't think anyone can fault you for being too tight from the SB. After all, you are in the worst position with a longshot hand most times. Calling lots of raises from the SB could be pretty detrimental if you don't play very well post-flop.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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I said that when calling raises you should consider if you would call it from lp. I just thought I have this expensive habit of limping a lot of trash hands in SB. I haven't considered that odds are so great that it is probably good. Not confused any more. Thanks.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dave Davis
I said that when calling raises you should consider if you would call it from lp. I just thought I have this expensive habit of limping a lot of trash hands in SB. I haven't considered that odds are so great that it is probably good. Not confused any more. Thanks.
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Limping in the small blind isn't great, but limping to a raise in the small blind is worse. This is something I've thought a lot about.
Even hands that you would normally set hunt w/ lose a lot of value. For example, you might limp to a big raise w/ 55, but now your stuck w/ a low pair OOP. Even if you hit your set you can't expect to make much money, because there is a greater chance that a late position raiser is stealing blinds and will be very unlikely to pay you off.
Lately, I've been folding weak and marginal hands in the SB and reraising big (up to 3X original raise) any strong hand (AJ-AK, 77-AA) when raised from late position. If the oringal raiser is from early position, I will give him more respect for the hand and I will usually fold anything less than AK or a PP.
I changed to this strategy about 2 or 3 weeks ago and it seems to be working extremely well. I won't know for sure until about 15,000 more hands though.
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parky
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Two Pair
Join Date: May 2006
Location: milwaukee
Posts: 40
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I always complete the small blind if it is limped to me, unless the guy behind me raises after I limp a couple of times. Any starting hand has at least a 5 % chance of winning, its a rare situation with a lot of limpers that you won't get that back, with a good hit on the flop. On the negative side I only play at low limits and loose tables so this advice may not work to well on tight tables or more aggressive players
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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If someone raises I play it like I would from early position.
If people are limping I play it how I would from late postion.
IF you decide to start limping offsuit Aces and the like then remember you can still easily be dominated (and someone else might have just hit 2 pair with 2 random cards too).
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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I think it is good to limp almost every hand if possible, as parky and ahiltz said, because when you hit two pair or some miracle, you can expect to break your opponents. Right now I remember one hand when I broke opponent with AJ when I had two pair - ace and and one other. A lot of other examples too. Of course that might not be good at higher stakes. You have to be prepared to fold top pair if you encounter resistance. But it is cheap and you are getting good odds.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by parky
I always complete the small blind if it is limped to me
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Stop doing this.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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completing every hand isn't good if only looking for 2pr+, since it only happens 1 out of 20 flops. that means you need an expectation of at least 10bb profit (20 x .5bb) when u do hit the flop.
and some times 2pr loses a big pot to a set, better 2pr, or draw that hits.
andy akb made a good suggestion in our session reviews - sometimes u gotta ask, what kind of board am I looking for and what hands will give me action?
Anyways it's pretty much another "it depends" for hand ranges..but I play more hands (Ax, SC, connectors...) if the table is real loose/passive with deeper stacks, and laggy against weak limpers.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by parky
I always complete the small blind if it is limped to me
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Stop doing this. |
Muhahahahahaha
It's wonderful that almost all of the players in these games have no clue how to play HU NLHE.
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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 I'm playing the SB pre-flop like it's the CO post-flop and the BB like it's the button. If it's limped/folded to me, you're gonna pay to see a flop if I have anything that looks like anything (SC, Axs, A9o+, JTo+, etc...). It's a good way to wreck your image, especially if I have a nit to my left who I can count on to fold.
If it's raised to me, I'm only playing premium draws and AQs+.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by parky
I always complete the small blind if it is limped to me
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Stop doing this. |
Muhahahahahaha
It's wonderful that almost all of the players in these games have no clue how to play HU NLHE. |
who is HU?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by parky
I always complete the small blind if it is limped to me
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Stop doing this. |
Muhahahahahaha
It's wonderful that almost all of the players in these games have no clue how to play HU NLHE. |
whose HU? |
Head's Up = 1-on-1.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thee One
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by parky
I always complete the small blind if it is limped to me
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Stop doing this. |
Muhahahahahaha
It's wonderful that almost all of the players in these games have no clue how to play HU NLHE. |
whose HU? |
Head's Up = 1-on-1. |
lol i know. i meant who is heads up? i haven't seen any discussion about heads up yet. maybe i'm blind.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Heads-up NLHE against bad players for dummies:
o Big cards go up in value a lot, draws go down in value. Any 2 cards nine or greater is a raising hand, particularly when limped to. On the flip side, you're probably better off checking 54s. Lots of people get this backwards.
o Big-little is playable, but certainly don't build pots with it. It also mixes up your play because they can't eliminate the chances you have an Ace or King if there are no pre-flop fireworks.
o Position is huge.
o Hence, with full tables blinds and the SB first to act on every round, you should play it very carefully. Fold trash, complete into weak players, 3x into tight players who probably have something bigger going on in another tagble.
o If you're stealing from a tight BB, don't be too obvious about it. Give him a pass every now and then when you have 82o.
o Don't turn a small insta-profit bet into a big loss by spewing on big streets with air and weak hands.
o Limping AA/KK into an aggressive Big Blind is under-rated.
o Let someone who's flipped the spew bit spew.
For what it's worth, my results in these spots are very strong.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Heads-up NLHE against bad players for dummies:
o Big cards go up in value a lot, draws go down in value. Any 2 cards nine or greater is a raising hand, particularly when limped to. On the flip side, you're probably better off checking 54s. Lots of people get this backwards.
o Big-little is playable, but certainly don't build pots with it. It also mixes up your play because they can't eliminate the chances you have an Ace or King if there are no pre-flop fireworks.
o Position is huge.
o Hence, with full tables blinds and the SB first to act on every round, you should play it very carefully. Fold trash, complete into weak players, 3x into tight players who probably have something bigger going on in another tagble.
o If you're stealing from a tight BB, don't be too obvious about it. Give him a pass every now and then when you have 82o.
o Don't turn a small insta-profit bet into a big loss by spewing on big streets with air and weak hands.
o Limping AA/KK into an aggressive Big Blind is under-rated.
o Let someone who's flipped the spew bit spew.
For what it's worth, my results in these spots are very strong.
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i guess you're talking about when it's folded around to the blinds then. i thought you meant actual HU NL.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
i guess you're talking about when it's folded around to the blinds then. i thought you meant actual HU NL.
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Kinda the same thing. Only in the folded to the blinds case, the players tend to be worse, avoid big pots (unless they are spewing) and your focus tends to just be on the one hand.
edit: nevermind, I thought he said he always completed when it was folded to him. After a bunch of limpers I play it tight because it's a lot harder to take the pot when everyone misses or get much of any value out of the hand.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
edit: nevermind, I thought he said he always completed when it was folded to him.
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figured that
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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I would still rather raise/fold when it is folded around to me rather than complete and limp. Raising frequently from the SB and BB when it is folded around is a good way to annoy your neighbors and slightly build up your aggression image w/out really investing much.
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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I almost always raise when it is folded to me in SB (most of the times 5bb) , maybe even with 72o against the right opponents. I think that is right. But that was not the main topic of discussion. But, however, I don't mind if you stick to the topic or not. So, feel free to talk about side topics.
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