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Play this hand with me 5nl 6-max

  
 
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tuuk2
Old 09-13-2009, 02:42 AM     Post subject: Play this hand with me 5nl 6-max #1 (permalink)  
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After replaying this hand a few times, I was wondering if I made a mistake in the way I played it. The villain was overly aggressive but wasn't being forced to show down a whole lot. After watching him a few hands though, I knew that he was careless and was trying to use his stack as a weapon, pushing all-in several times.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($14.92)
Button ($10.31)
SB ($6)
BB ($10)
UTG ($5.33)
Hero (MP) ($10.24)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9, 10
1 fold, Hero bets $0.15, CO raises to $0.25

Any critiques on the pre-flop play? Call OOP or 4-bet? Or fold to a min-raise?
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Stacks
Old 09-13-2009, 05:01 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Hero insta-calls. You are 200bb deep, with a hand that will flop pretty well a significant % of the time, and are facing a minraise with huge implied odds. Anything other than calling is terrible.
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-13-2009, 05:19 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Call, bring on the flop.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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ColdDecked
Old 09-13-2009, 05:45 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Very easy call. You and the villain are deep here, and you have a suited connectors are great with large stack to pot ratio. Although you'll be playing out of position, it's only a min raise. Pot odds dictate that you HAVE to call, so let's see a flop.
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Ordalium
Old 09-13-2009, 06:29 AM #5 (permalink)  
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You can see the flop cheaply and your hand have a very good potential. So call.

3 bet : not a good option because vilain is over agressive and could 4 bet you. Build a huge pot before the flop OOP with middle SC is not a good idea.

fold is just lol.
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geno9
Old 09-13-2009, 07:22 AM #6 (permalink)  
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are you seriously considering folding this?!?

raising pre was fine .. now its an easy call, see a flop.....
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DoanDiggy
Old 09-13-2009, 11:06 AM #7 (permalink)  
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This is a cool approach to getting commentary on your play. Bring on the flop!
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tuuk2
Old 09-13-2009, 12:52 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Nope, I wasn't really considering folding for two reasons:

One, it's only .10 more and two by calling I think I'm disguising my hand better. If he's thinking about ranges, he's probably putting my on Ax or maybe a pocket pair. I don't think this guy is thinking ranges though.

Now for the flop. Remember this guy is very aggressive. He's almost always betting regardless of the board texture. His stats are 62/26/30 over 89 hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($14.92)
Button ($10.31)
SB ($6)
BB ($10)
UTG ($5.33)
Hero (MP) ($10.24)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9, 10
1 fold, Hero bets $0.15, CO raises to $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.57) 6, 10, 9 (2 players)
Hero?

Is this a check, check/raise or lead out?
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tugger
Old 09-13-2009, 01:07 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I'm not sure. He's certainly going to cbet if you check, but maybe he'll raise you if you lead! It's pretty much a given that you're way ahead here, the only thing you don't want is to see the board pair, allowing JJ+ to take the lead by means of counterfeit, or the 7/8 scare card. Still, now's the time to build up as huge a pot as possible, maybe I'd lead out with a 40-50% bet.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:22 PM #10 (permalink)  
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c/r and ship it in on the flop he might have KK+
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tugger
Old 09-13-2009, 03:04 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
c/r and ship it in on the flop he might have KK+
Surely you mean ship it on the turn? Or do you mean c/r all in?

C/raise seems good, unless he has 88 or 77. But then, if he's uber aggressive, he's betting these two hands anyway. A7 and A8 are hands he's likely to try to peel off a freebie.

I'd ship it on any turn other than 6, 7 or 8.
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tuuk2
Old 09-13-2009, 03:16 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I'll give it another hour or so then I'll show what happens next.
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Stacks
Old 09-13-2009, 03:28 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 easy c/r. Make it large too.
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jyms
Old 09-13-2009, 03:35 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 bet/3bet would not be a bad choice. A C/R may make him shut down since his range surely will be harder to call a C/R than to raise a flop cbet himself. I hate turning up aggression like this vs someone who will bet in these spots looking to fold you out. C/R kinda tips our hand vs an aggro monkey. Our hand is very hidden and with no Broadways on the flop it looks like a chase spot for us.
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tuuk2
Old 09-13-2009, 04:34 PM #15 (permalink)  
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tuuk2
Ok. So here was my thought process for this hand:

1. The guy is an idiot, but he's only raising about 1/3 of the time pre-flop. To me, that means he's got a decent hand that includes A-J through AK, 6-6+, although it could also include KQ as well.
2. He's been very aggressive post-flop. I'm pretty sure that if I check here, he'll bet out. I think that he might even re-raise me if I lead out here. I'm not as sure about that though. He might just call and leave me with a smaller pot than I want.

I decide to check and induce him to bet. It should allow me to decide the size of the pot that way. Once he bets, I will 3-bet him hard, since he could have a flush draw here and I want to make him pay to play. If this was someone a little less aggressive, I'd lead out on this flop to guard against someone checking behind to get the free turn card.

Here's what happens next...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($14.92)
Button ($10.31)
SB ($6)
BB ($10)
UTG ($5.33)
Hero (MP) ($10.24)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9, 10
1 fold, Hero bets $0.15, CO raises to $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.57) 6, 10, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $14.67 (All-In), Hero?

I was not expecting the all-in there. So now I must make the decision for about 200bbs... What do you do and what do you think villain could be doing with this? I'll share my thought process later today.
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daven
Old 09-13-2009, 05:41 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 bet-3bet flop. Call as played.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuuk2
I decide to check and induce him to bet. It should allow me to decide the size of the pot that way. Once he bets, I will 3-bet him hard, si.
your raise will not be a 3-bet. Read the definition in the dictionary.
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 09-14-2009, 12:42 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Super-insta-fist-pump-snap-call. This looks like a big draw (2 overs with the flush draw), a made hand / draw (88 or 77), an overpair trying to take advantage of his aggressive image, or really any pair that thinks his hand is best / you might fold better / you might call with a draw / doesn't want to see any more cards. Or he could have air (2 overs or worse). You said he's been shoving a lot. He pretty much never has you beat here since a set or better is playing the flop a little bit slower.
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tuuk2
Old 09-14-2009, 12:48 AM #18 (permalink)  
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OK. So the all-in bet is a little scary. Did he hit trips? I don't think he did, but I have seen people massively overbet here. I basically thought that if he did hit trips, it was trip sixes. I've got the blockers in the 10 and 9 so it makes trips there less likely.

He'd been aggressive before, so I thought it was possible he had the overpair or top pair. After about 10 seconds of thought, I called. Here's how it ended:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($14.92)
Button ($10.31)
SB ($6)
BB ($10)
UTG ($5.33)
Hero (MP) ($10.24)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9, 10
1 fold, Hero bets $0.15, CO raises to $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.57) 6, 10, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $14.67 (All-In), Hero calls $9.99 (All-In)

Turn: ($20.55) A (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($20.55) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $20.55 | Rake: $1

Results:
Hero had 9, 10 (two pair, tens and nines).
CO had K, K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $19.55

Special prize goes to Iopq for putting the dude on KK+. Well done!
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DoanDiggy
Old 09-14-2009, 12:51 AM #19 (permalink)  
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lolslowrollaments

Given your read that he's been shoving a lot this isn't even close.
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tugger
Old 09-14-2009, 01:31 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Nice.

He made the flop play easy either way, didn't he? He was reraising all in if you lead out.

Yeah, the push would scare me, but I'd call for sure. I had him on JJ.
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Poker Orifice
Old 09-14-2009, 05:55 AM #21 (permalink)  
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 10secs.?? what were you considering? (maybe if I wait I'll lose my connection & get a disconnect??).
What is villain's name.... I would like to add them to my buddy list.
"SEIBORG"
 
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tuuk2
Old 09-14-2009, 11:48 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Orifice
10secs.?? what were you considering? (maybe if I wait I'll lose my connection & get a disconnect??).
What is villain's name.... I would like to add them to my buddy list.
I think it's always best to think before I call when it's for my entire stack. If there's anything I hate, it's losing two buy-ins on one hand because I didn't clearly think about what my opponent had. Funny thing is he kept asking me to ship him some money afterwards. The guy was an idiot.
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tugger
Old 09-14-2009, 03:52 PM #23 (permalink)  
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tugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuuk2
I think it's always best to think before I call when it's for my entire stack.
Absolutely. I've taken over 30 seconds to call KK all in pre flop before, because I was so convinced he had aces. I came close to folding, but it was a 25c MTT. Can't fold KK pre for 25c.

He had aces, by the way.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:10 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
c/r and ship it in on the flop he might have KK+
Surely you mean ship it on the turn? Or do you mean c/r all in?
ship it over a 3b
and try to get this in as fast as possible
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Broker_RJ
Old 09-14-2009, 09:22 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Orifice
10secs.?? what were you considering? (maybe if I wait I'll lose my connection & get a disconnect??).
What is villain's name.... I would like to add them to my buddy list.
make it 2.
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Poker Orifice
Old 09-15-2009, 04:40 AM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuuk2
I think it's always best to think before I call when it's for my entire stack.
Absolutely. I've taken over 30 seconds to call KK all in pre flop before, because I was so convinced he had aces. I came close to folding, but it was a 25c MTT. Can't fold KK pre for 25c.

He had aces, by the way.
You'd consider folding KK preflop in a 25c MTT? I thought I was a huge nit (acually I 'was' but am learning otherwise).
"SEIBORG"
 
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:53 AM #27 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuuk2
I think it's always best to think before I call when it's for my entire stack.
Absolutely. I've taken over 30 seconds to call KK all in pre flop before, because I was so convinced he had aces. I came close to folding, but it was a 25c MTT. Can't fold KK pre for 25c.

He had aces, by the way.
you thought all of that time and still made the wrong choice? wow this is what they mean by Fancy Play Syndrome
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Chopper
Old 09-15-2009, 06:03 AM #28 (permalink)  
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too late to jump in, i suppose, but b/3b on flop is best....given he's crazy aggro.

he will push over with diamonds, possibly overs, and/or what he thinks has to be the nuts as of right now. the only thing you are terribly worried about is a set. the rest you beat.

you are so deep with your stack, but would love to get as much money in as possible. so, why are we c/r'ing a flop? we risk giving free cards to trash and would like a little value in case he has trash. but, would really like to get the ball rolling on felting the hand. only way to do that deep stacked, imo, is to lead out.

at this level, you may even lead rather small and make it look like the other donkeys that block a draw on the flop. if he has much, he comes right over the top almost every time.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:59 AM #29 (permalink)  
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Chopper, this is only true if he doesn't know what a cbet is
or if he's a very sophisticated 5NL player and checks back his marginal made hands like AK high for pot control to enduce a bluff from you on a blank turn

otherwise against people who basically cbet their entire range c/r is by far superior
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tugger
Old 09-15-2009, 12:14 PM #30 (permalink)  
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tugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Orifice
You'd consider folding KK preflop in a 25c MTT? I thought I was a huge nit (acually I 'was' but am learning otherwise).
I'd consider folding KK if I think he has aces. It doesn't matter how much money it's for, really. And if I know he has aces, I will fold kings.

I think iopq's critisim is a little fairer. I got the right read and made the wrong call.
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