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allabout
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07-08-2008, 04:17 PM
Post subject: PFR sizing from regs
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA USA
Posts: 276
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I've noticed on Stars that a lot of the regulars have been playing with thier pfr sizing lately. A couple that I would say are pretty solid have been like minraising (virus at 100nl) to open and another would open from min 2x to like 5x pf. Its weird. I actually tried 3x for a while but is there any benefit at all to like a minraise as a standard?
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Robb
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07-08-2008, 07:00 PM
Post subject: Re: PFR sizing from regs
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#2 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by allabout
I've noticed on Stars that a lot of the regulars have been playing with thier pfr sizing lately. A couple that I would say are pretty solid have been like minraising (virus at 100nl) to open and another would open from min 2x to like 5x pf. Its weird. I actually tried 3x for a while but is there any benefit at all to like a minraise as a standard?
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Strategically, a standard minraise would have to accompany a loose, small-ball type of game that generated big time action on premium hands. In practice, I don't see it working.
If you open with a minraise, BB is getting 3.5 to 1 on his call and 5 to 1 if the SB takes his 7 to 3 odds and calls. There's just almost no hands in poker that shouldn't be opened under those circumstances. To invite callers so liberally preflop, you'd have to be pretty stellar postflop to make up the difference.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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4x and 5x has problems if a couple players at your table are 3-betting anywhere near often enough. Also, multi-tablers give up their button and blinds too easily.
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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I actually started min-raising in LP as to Fnords point that multitablers use the auto-act buttons so much that 9/10 times they're auto folding. As for raising above the standard 3.5-4'ish, I actually started opening larger vs loose passive stations behind me
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
I actually started min-raising in LP as to Fnords point that multitablers use the auto-act buttons so much that 9/10 times they're auto folding. As for raising above the standard 3.5-4'ish, I actually started opening larger vs loose passive stations behind me
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Min-raising has a very different dynamic to it than 3x which usually gets people to just piss off. Also, it's sooo much harder to build a good pot after a 2x raise. Already with 3x I find myself betting closer to the size of the pot to make-up ground when I want to play for lots of money.
5x is a my pretty standard limper pwnage raise. If he's really short I'll raise more if I can get him to see a flop with less than 2x pot behind.
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reprisal
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 106
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I'll drop down to 2.5x in certain situations. Min-raising seem a bit risky unless youve got a big edge post flop or theyre both short. The nice thing about min-raising or 2.5x raising is spastic 3-betters usually fail to adjust sensibly(and reraised pots are easy enough to build).
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allabout
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA USA
Posts: 276
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So Fnord your standard open is 3x?
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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Elmer Letterman
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by allabout
So Fnord your standard open is 3x?
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Yup, click, click, next table, click, click, next table, click, click, ....
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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There is definitely an advantage in opening smaller on the button. I like 3x on the button, 4x every where else. Maybe 3x in the cutoff if the button is tight.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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pankfish
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07-09-2008, 03:49 AM
Post subject: Re: PFR sizing from regs
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#10 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
If you open with a minraise, BB is getting 3.5 to 1 on his call and 5 to 1 if the SB takes his 7 to 3 odds and calls. There's just almost no hands in poker that shouldn't be opened under those circumstances. To invite callers so liberally preflop, you'd have to be pretty stellar postflop to make up the difference.
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So the BB will be more inclined to play weaker hands oop? That's not a bad thing for us. The only is what fnord said. When you actually have a hand it is going to be tough to build a pot when you only make it 2x to go.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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