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Stagemn
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04-21-2006, 09:20 AM
Post subject: PFR with 55 in MP?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 195
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Should I have played this differently?
NOTE... BB is a Calling Station (VP$IP 34%, PFR 0, PostFlAgg 0.4, WTSD 50%, W$@SD 25%)
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($2.37)
Hero ($7.21)
MP2 ($5.40)
CO ($4.34)
Button ($4.10)
SB ($4.70)
BB ($4.99)
UTG ($0.97)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5 , 5 .
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, MP2 raises to $0.24, 2 folds, SB calls $0.23, BB calls $0.22, Hero calls $0.12.
Flop: ($0.96) 8 , 9, K (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.36, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls $0.36.
Turn: ($1.68) T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.66, BB calls $0.66.
River: ($3) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5.95 (All-In), BB calls $3.73 (All-In).
Final Pot: $12.68
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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Hmmmm, 5 way pot, scary board, calling staations and a lot of action pre-flop. You even money against a draw and overs but well behind any other pair.
Check-fold the flop, do you really think your 5's are best?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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If hes a calling station you wont buy a pot off him and you destroy your imlplied odds by raising preflop. You want to try and get into as many hands with him as possibly cheaply preflop, and value bet him to death when he has middle pair and you have 2 pair postflop.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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Congratulations on hitting your 2-outter.
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Poker, poker, its all skill, start with the worst hand and go up hill !
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KingLizard
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaHorror
Congratulations on hitting your 2-outter.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
If hes a calling station you wont buy a pot off him and you destroy your imlplied odds by raising preflop. You want to try and get into as many hands with him as possibly cheaply preflop, and value bet him to death when he has middle pair and you have 2 pair postflop.
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calling stations destroy your implied odds when you raise preflop with a hand that can hit huge? HUH?
Bet strong flop, bet strong turn, bet strong river = big pot, right?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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stage-
preflop i'd rather make a smaller raise. Limping is OK if the table generally isn't extremely agressive behind you and you can still get paid off nicely if you hit a set in a limped pot, both parameters which I find likely at these stakes. A raise is also fine but 6x is a bit much IMO. Postflop your bets are kind of meaningless and ineffective at only around 1/3 the pot. Flop I'd prefer to just check and fold to a bet. Turn: why are you betting here? River, I like.
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Aces
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 832
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Raising w/55 is OK as a change-up, but I wouldn't make it a habit. Pretty much insta-check/fold on that flop 5way.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Sorry, but you pretty much played every street but the river about as badly as you could. Raising preflop from MP1 with 55 is just asking for trouble if this is your usual play. You were lucky to get a lot of callers. The flop and turn bets were very bad because you underbet the pot so much. If you are going to make a stab at the pot, you can't give people 4:1 to call. Plus, this is about the worst flop possible for you to be trying to steal. Lots of hands will have pairs, 2pair, flush draw, or straight draws. Not only is it unlikely for you to steal the pot, but you will often lose even if you spike a 5 with this board. Fairly good results on the flop with narrowing it down to 1 opponent, then you make the same mistake on the turn and underbet the pot with an even scarier board than the flop. There are times and places to play small pocket pairs aggressively, and this hand was not it. When you bet unimproved with a hand like 55, you want boards like 227 or KK4 or 468. You need a board that is unlikely to have hit your opponents.
The preflop raise is a feasible play at the right table at these stakes, and I can't just say it is wrong off-hand. You got decent results with it. But both the flop and turn really left you with no choice but check/fold. Continuing to play like this will lose vast sums of money. And your opponent being a calling station doesn't make the turn bet better. Calling stations call with stuff they shouldn't, but they rarely call with nothing, and nothing is the only thing you can beat. Even if you destack him every time you catch a 5 on the river, your turn bet probably loses money because 95% of the time he's got a pair or a strong draw and his stack is low.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Weird play. Raising 55 unless it's an unusual thing to "mix it up every once and a while" is rather strange. A below half pot bet on a missed flop.. why? Same for the turn. Then you got lucky on the river - please note you had a whopping 6% to get this 5 here - and you had the luck he had a crap hand but called anyway?..
Methinks you're only making money here because you got lucky (12% to get your 2 outer over turn+river yet you keep building a pot) AND because your opponent was a calling station donk.
I'd limp preflop, call a raise, drop to anything but pathetic low bets after you miss your flop.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Oh and to give you a little perspective...
I *love* to see this kind of play at the tables I'm playing at. Weak bet on the flop.. he has nothing to speak off. Same on the turn, still nothing. Out-of-the-blue all-in on the river.. *maybe* a weird bluff but most likely he hit a monster, so thx for telling me to fold..
So if I see this showdown, ok cool.. now I'll have a pretty good idea what you have from your bets in the future.
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