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Perhaps my best hand ever (QQ OOP with a K on flop and turn)

  
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 12-04-2008, 07:29 AM     Post subject: Perhaps my best hand ever (QQ OOP with a K on flop and turn) #1 (permalink)  
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DoanDiggy
I had been pretty aggressive postflop, and CO had started playing back at me.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($7.71)
MP2 ($5.21)
CO ($4.56)
Button ($1.90)
SB ($5.73)
Hero (BB) ($14.19)
UTG ($6.33)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
3 folds, CO calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, CO calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) 4, 5, K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($0.42) K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, CO raises to $1.80, Hero calls $1.05

River: ($4.02) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.56 (All-In), Hero calls $2.56

Total pot: $9.14 | Rake: $0.40

Results:
Hero had Q, Q (two pair, Kings and Queens).
CO had Q, 10 (two pair, Kings and tens).
Outcome: Hero won $8.74


When he checked behind on the flop, I was pretty sure he didn't have a K. By checking the turn K (he's even less likely to have one now), I figured to get a lot of value from bluffs since I was showing weakness. My check-raise here looks pretty bluffy, so I'm happy to make the call when he 3bets.

On the river T, I figured to be able to put him all-in and get called by a T, but I also figured that a lot of other hands bluffing the turn (or semi-bluffing with a heart draw) would bluff the river behind my check.

So maybe my play was too tricky for these stakes, but how else could I expect to get QQ all-in on this hand against QT? I like it, but I'm open to criticism.
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oskar
Old 12-04-2008, 07:51 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 You obviously played against an idiot here.
If you know he's stacking off with Q high, then go ahead. Usually I don't think there is any value in raising the turn. You get weaker pairs to fold, and when you get called you're usually no good. - This is the exact opposite of what you want.
If you can get value out of xx, then do it. But realize that this only works with really stupid opponents.
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DoanDiggy
Old 12-04-2008, 08:01 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
You obviously played against an idiot here.
I have to disagree here. I had made the same check, check/raise pattern several times with air on previous hands, taking down the pot. This guy was a decent player and had noticed that; I'm pretty sure that on a previous hand we had this same exact pattern and I folded to a reraise.

So when I raise here, I think it looks pretty bluffy (what hand could I possibly have here that makes sense?), and most of the time, he can reraise with air and make me go away. When I call his reraise, though, he should be a bit worried. Fortunately for me, he hit his 10 on the river and thought I had some kind of underpair I might call with. Of course, checking behind would have been the right play here, so on the river, he was definitely an idiot.
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daguksta
Old 12-04-2008, 08:12 AM #4 (permalink)  

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Wow, you got lucky here. I mean he kept calling you when there were two overcards on the board. I mean you played it well and he played it rather stupidly, in my opinion. Nice pot though! Especially at this stage.
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BankItDrew
Old 12-04-2008, 08:14 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 sometimes bad players will make bad decisions and take certain hands to the grave. sometimes, very passively.


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DoanDiggy
Old 12-04-2008, 08:21 AM #6 (permalink)  
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DoanDiggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by daguksta
I mean he kept calling you when there were two overcards on the board.
That's the key, though... he wasn't calling me. If you think a loose/aggressive player is bluffing, raising is the right play. Apparently he thought I was bluffing. I would almost never check a pair of kings on the flop and then check/raise a set of kings on the turn. A player with a pocket pair might check, check/call, but why would a pair check/raise that turn? So he could figure that I'm bluffing with a hand like AQ or semi-bluffing with a flush draw, which I would have to fold to his reraise.

Still, I absolutely agree that him shoving the river was just horrible. Maybe if he had missed his hand completely a bluff shove would make sense, but there aren't many worse hands calling his shove. A lot of players tend to think that someone who is loose/aggressive postflop is willing to call bets like that with bad hands, and that is just incorrect against a good player. I may have shoved in bottom pair (holding 72o) on a previous hand, but I'm certainly not calling an all-in with it.
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sil693
Old 12-04-2008, 12:17 PM #7 (permalink)  
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i dont like it.

what does your turn c/r get value from?
against a non donk your 3bet is only being called by better.

you seem to be incredibly results oriented in this hand, if you did this and he showed up with a K is it still a good play on your side?
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 12-04-2008, 02:34 PM #8 (permalink)  
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DoanDiggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by sil693
i dont like it.

what does your turn c/r get value from?
against a non donk your 3bet is only being called by better.
Against someone who is picking up on the fact that I've been bluffing a lot, it gets value from a bluff catcher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sil693
you seem to be incredibly results oriented in this hand, if you did this and he showed up with a K is it still a good play on your side?
If he showed up with a K here, I would seriously question my reads on this guy. I had been playing with him for several hands and felt like I had a pretty good handle on his betting patterns. He had started to play back at my bluffs, so I was fully expecting him to do so in this case.

Results oriented? I don't know if that really applies here. This isn't a play that I make while playing 6 tables and trying to make the "by the book" play. This is a play I make when I have a good read on someone and have a pretty good idea of what he's going to show up with. Of course I wouldn't always play QQ like this on this board.

I do appreciate the feedback, though. It made me consider that this style of play against a random could never be +EV in the long run. With no reads, I definitely like check/call a lot better.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-04-2008, 02:37 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I would tend to check/call the turn, b/f river unless I had meta to suggest that I could take a bluffier looking line (like you say you did)

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