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ProZachNation

02-21-2006, 11:28 PM Post subject: Perfect read here

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Over there!

Posts: 801

I read him on a flush here, did I make the right play for my read?

Hand #212915925 at table: Table TH 549
Started: Tue Feb 21 19:25:00 2006

Olaaf is at seat 1 with 2.81
EvilKenD is at seat 2 with 4.16
mksboy is at seat 3 with 4.75
ProZachACE is at seat 4 with 9.60
Janaaa is at seat 6 with 5.40
meierp is at seat 7 with 0.00
Pokees is at seat 8 with 4.00
Fercsi is at seat 9 with 19.21
Main11 is at seat 10 with 1.86

ProZachACE posts the large blind 0.10
mksboy posts the small blind 0.05

mksboy: --, --
ProZachACE: Js, As
Janaaa: --, --
Pokees: --, --
Fercsi: --, --
Main11: --, --
Olaaf: --, --
EvilKenD: --, --

Pre-flop:

Janaaa: Fold
Pokees: Call 0.10
Fercsi: Fold
Main11: Fold
Olaaf: Fold
EvilKenD: Call 0.10
mksboy: Call 0.10
ProZachACE: Raise 0.50
Pokees: Fold
EvilKenD: Fold
mksboy: Call 0.50

Flop (Board: 9c, Jh, 7c):

mksboy: Bet 1.00
ProZachACE: All in
mksboy: All in

Turn (Board: 9c, Jh, 7c, 8c):

River (Board: 9c, Jh, 7c, 8c, 5c):

Showdown:

ProZachACE shows: Js, As (a pair of Jacks)
mksboy shows: 10c, Jc (a straight flush)

Mainpot:
mksboy wins the pot of 9.35 with a straight flush

(0.45 rake were taken for this hand)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.

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bigred

02-21-2006, 11:36 PM

#2 (permalink)

PROFESSIONAL TROLL

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Nest of Douchebags

Posts: 2,184

Throwing your stack in with only TPTK requires a good read. If you think all he has is a flush draw, then yes, it's a good play. You're ahead. However, your op had 9 club outs, 3 outs for the 8 (minus the 8c), and 3 outs for another T. 15 outs if I calculated correctly, which I probably didn't. So I guess it was far from a perfect read, but this kind of hand is hard to read.

LOL OPERATIONS

Les_Worm

02-21-2006, 11:38 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

You don't have to go all in. Just bet so that his odds are higher than 4:1, if you do that he is making a mistake calling and you have done your job no matter what the outcome. In this case he also has a pair and straight draw as well so I don't think hes folding but you didn't read him for that.

The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You

ProZachNation

02-22-2006, 12:20 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Over there!

Posts: 801

Well he only had like 2.50 left behind so I pushed, if i had raised 2.50 he owuld been all-in either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.

outphase

02-22-2006, 04:35 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

Code:

Board: 9c Jh 7c 
Dead:  

        	equity (%)  	win (%)	tie (%) 
Hand  1:	43.7879 %  	42.73% 	01.06%      { AsJs }
Hand  2:	56.2121 %  	55.15% 	01.06%      { JcTc }

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

Miffed22001

02-22-2006, 07:12 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

reraise the flop bet.
the turn would have forced you to fold, but if it was a blank and you had the read i may have shoved then.

ProZachNation

02-22-2006, 07:41 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Over there!

Posts: 801

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

reraise the flop bet.
the turn would have forced you to fold, but if it was a blank and you had the read i may have shoved then.

Ok on the flop he raised a dollar, he had $3.25 left behind, should I have min raised to $2 leaving him with $2.25 behind? What do I do if he pushed after I min raise?

I dont know anymore, I think I made a good read, he just had a ton of other outs too... I guess I still have a lot to learn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.

natdang

02-23-2006, 02:58 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 380

This board is way too coordinated to be going crazy on the flop. 3 to a straight, and a flush draw out. Your read on the flush draw was correct, but you missed his pair and straight draw as well. Like the table above shows, you're actually behind on the flop with two cards to come.

I'd reraise a good amount for sure, to cut off any weak draws he might have had, but you likely aren't gonna get this guy to lay his hand down. See a turn and save yourself from going broke. (Any resistance after the scare card on the turn is an insta-fold btw)

dj newman

02-23-2006, 03:14 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 210

I don't mind your play here at all....I don't know what else you do here. I don't think I get away from this unless I call the flop....which I wouldn't do...that leaves raising, and you are not getting away after the raise....he probably pushes after you raise anyhow (that is if you don't raise all in...but you don't fold if he pushes....so the push seems right to me).

biondino

02-23-2006, 04:54 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

How did you make the read? A near-pot-sized bet at these limits tends to mean TP. You had TPTK so you were in a position to dictate the pace, but what kind of fish bets so hard with nothing but a draw? Actually, I do, quite often, but my first thought is always TP in situations like this.

So, I don't have a problem with your play, esp. considering stacks, but I honestly can't believe that you could read an opponent at $10NL who makes a standard flop bet to any degree of accuracy.

biondino

02-23-2006, 04:54 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

And I assume the "perfect read" of the thread title is irnoy?

poskid_1982

02-23-2006, 05:40 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Midwest

Posts: 392

Why push him in here? He has just enough left behind for a followup bet on the turn...I would call and look for a safe turn card to push or call his stack. You have him read as a flush draw...Well if you see a club, 8, T or K fall you can muck your hand without having spent more than you would have normally flop betting and seeing a scary turn that your opp liked. I look to go to the turn and determine if I have the possibility of still having an edge.

PK

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

ProZachNation

02-23-2006, 06:03 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Over there!

Posts: 801

I was trying to push him off of his flush.

I had seen him make the same play on a flush draw a few times, and with tptk he would try to trap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.

beez

02-23-2006, 07:06 PM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProZachNation

I was trying to push him off of his flush.

I had seen him make the same play on a flush draw a few times, and with tptk he would try to trap.

there's no need to "push him off of his flush." just give him incorrect calling odds and let it work itself out.

poskid_1982

02-23-2006, 07:06 PM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Midwest

Posts: 392

Okay...I didnt explain my point well enough I think. What I was trying to say is that if this guy has purely a flush draw he has already made a potsized bet and disintegrated his own odds with only one opponent who has position on him. So with having a vulnerable TPTK you can then make the decision to call and find a safe turn where your pot edge can be much larger to de-stack him. Basically if he is on a bigger draw than your read then you can pass up your small positive to small negative edge now...Make it a bigger edge on the turn and shove him off his now weaker hand there or allow him to donk off the rest of his chips in a futile bluff attempt.

You can reference ToP (dont have my copy on me but I know it's in there) and if you have any limit books then SSH explains it in limit terms with the "two overpair hands" Section.

PK

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

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