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van.dog
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05-27-2009, 03:56 PM
Post subject: People going all-in pre-flop with AA
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 58
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I'm playing .01/.02 NL on stars (what's the correct way to say that?) and people with AA are always going all-in pre-flop with AA. This seems counter-productive since people here always fold, even to .04 raises unless they have a real monster hand.
Am I looking at the situation wrong? Wouldn't I want to raise to .04 and see who calls? Instead nobody calls the all in and they win a total of .03 + whatever they put into the pot and usually a .02 or two initial bet.
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tuuk2
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Hartford
Posts: 296
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There are two reasons why you might want to go all-in pre with AA. One, you know you'll get called. Two, you're afraid that you'll get outplayed on the flop. I play 2nl and I disagree that if you raise .04 everyone will fold to you. If that's the case, pick another table. I've been at tables where some of the people are calling 80%+. These are the guys you need to take to value town.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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I find that people fold really easily at $2NL as well. Going all-in out of nowhere is counterproductive imo, although you will get called once in a while. I suggest just raising your standard raise (4xbb + 1bb/limper or whatever you decide on) and then hoping you get one caller or a raiser. As soon as I get 3bet with AA, I usually shove depending on my read on how often he'll call, or just re-raise for value.
No matter what, you HAVE to raise PF with AA to prevent people with weak hands from seeing the flop and connecting. One problem you might have is that you don't even get to see the flop with AA frequently since everyone folds. Don't let this get to you, because in my experience this happened to me a lot. Remember that poker is a long-term game and that you will get AA many many many times. Don't get pissed because you don't get any callers and don't think that one particular time that you have AA is so rare and so important that you try to win that hand no matter what, even though you are beat.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,519
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This thread cracks me up.
If you think people fold "really easily" at 2NL then don't ever move up.
Just because you don't get action on your aces every single time doesn't mean you shouldn't raise them. Please read some basic strategy guide peoples.
Alternatively, have fun donating to the poker economy.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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i've open shoved AA before, but it's very very situational. most of these situations revolve around me playing against anxious, tilted or just plain retarded players when i'm running hot. if i've just taken someone all in who is 90/5/1.5 w a set against his TPNK, for example, and then raise my AQo in MP and get folded to and then get dealt aces...i'm tempted to shove in this situation.
i don't really care if it's the right play because i've been called down more than 1/3 of the time (i'd even say closer to 50) so that's pretty darned good BB/hand even for AA.
ANYWAY, the far more important part of this post is to say that raising to .04 is a terrible idea w AA. AA's equity plummets with every card that turns so you want to get as much in the middle preflop as possible, especially against 2NL donks who'll call a 4xbb PFR w KTo and suck out on you quite often. the rule of thumb is 4xbb+1 for every limper, but go ahead and raise more if you'd like (just so long as you're raising that much for EVERY hand you raise)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,519
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by surviva316
i don't really care if it's the right play because i've been called down more than 1/3 of the time (i'd even say closer to 50) so that's pretty darned good BB/hand even for AA.
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pro tip: the "right play" is the one that makes us the most monies on average given the situation, not the one that's written down in some guide on how to be a robotic taggbot.
That being said, those guides are good for n00bs cuz n00bs frequently incorrectly diverge from taggbot formulas thinking they know better when they rarely do.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I open shove with AA 60% of the time, all the time.
It sometimes works.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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uhm op, you can raise 10x BB and get called by a face card. if you min raise ur going to build a huge family pot and allow someone to outflop you
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nibbles
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 374
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When I played 2NL I'd see people open shove AA and get callers all the time. Anything happens at that stake. You have to keep in mind that most people at that stake are just screwing around. Sometimes you will find that you are the only one at the table taking the game halfway seriously. Players will call your raise with any two cards with the sole intent of cracking your big hand. I saw it all the time. So the players open shoving would rather win the small pot than to lose the big one. And at 2NL, that shove gets called more than you believe.
And as for "people always fold" at Pokerstars 2NL is crazy. I don't know when you play but getting action on your hands is never a problem.
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adam.poker
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: US
Posts: 18
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really good .....
your patience worked for you
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TonyB73
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 414
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Assuming no-one takes any notice of your raise size and puts you on AA as soon as you raise huge, surely you want to raise an amount that will get you one or at most two callers/3bettors?
What that amount is depends on who else is sitting at the table with you, but even at 2NL I suspect it is not a shove that often.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tuuk2
you're afraid that you'll get outplayed on the flop.
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If this is true above 2NL, move down. If this is true at 2NL, try to play it "properly" and practice, and expect to lose a little while you learn.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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