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Iwind
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10-18-2005, 11:03 AM
Post subject: Paying off quads and str flush
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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I don't have the hand history at the moment, but I had limped into a pot with 4 others holding 66 on the button. Flop came, 345 all spades, another 4 on the turn and a 6(not spade) on the river. The pot was now 3-4$ (25NL) after 2 minibets that everyone called. I thought these people either had a pair, two pair, set or were on some sort of draw, and I hoped that the river gave someone a straight, or that they had a house already from the turn. The 6 on the river gave me the best house, so after someone betting 1$ into the pot, I raise to 5$, everyone else apart from him folds and he goes all in, I call. He shows 62 of spades and I lose a 6$ pot.
So my question is, do you ever fold top house? This player was pretty tight, but still there was so many other hands I thought he'd do the same wiht. Of course I knew he could have quads or straight flush with that board, but still in my opinion I think it's profitable to never fold top house and just pay off the quads or straight flushes since they are so rare, but would be good with some more views on this.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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never fold top house.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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The certainty you're beat never quite outweighs the chance that you're not when you hold super strong hands like this. Folding in situations like this is known as weak tight.
You will pay off a straight flush every time you have a full house, and every time you have an ace high flush. You should be completely fine with doing so. The times you're ahead will more than make up for the rare occassion you're not.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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Good to hear you agree on this, will keep up doing it and hope it doesn't happen again in the near future
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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My favorite part was the '2 min-bets that everyone called'. With top boat, you should be paying off quads or straight flush every time. You should be paying off a straight flush with an ace-high flush every time (on an unpaired board). There are situations that you just cannot fold a hand and you will lose a stack. The reverse is also true. Not many hands beat you here.. 44, 6s2s, As2s, 6s7s if I remember your post correctly, and you have to pay off all of them.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Problems like this, while interesting, can usually be solved with some critical thinking (hand ranges, etc.)
Often it comes down to the fact that if I have a great hand and you have a better hand, I'm paying it off because of the other N times I see a worse hand or a god-aweful-WTF-was-he-thinking hand.
I think a lot of weak players focus on problems like this and not enough on the more common hands where no one has much of anything. Learning to get the best of those situations without splashing around too much will have far more impact on your bottom line.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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agreed. the times you pay off quads or a straight flush really are irrelevant to your overall winning because they're so infrequent.
i seem to remember hearing a story about a wsop hand where the board was xTJQKs, someone had the 9 for the straight flush and folded to a push and showed. the other guy laughed at him. not sure where i heard it or if its true but you get the idea.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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