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TerryToma
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08-27-2006, 05:45 AM
Post subject: Passed through 50NL in 5 days, time for 100NL?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Hey everyone,
If you've been following my progress on my blog, you can see that I started from around a bankroll of 500$ on 8/9/06. I graduated to 50NL on 8/22/06. Now, 5 days later my bankroll is above 2100$ (due to ~700$ of really hot-weekend play and 300$ in bonuses).
I have graduated to 100nl in ~3k hands!? This seems a bit too fast for me. Do you all recommend I move up? The play seemed even worse at 50nl, b/c I played mostly on party network compared to most of my 25nl play on ongame.
Also, I tweaked my game as I now run constistently VPIP/PFR in 20/10 rather than 25/8. My big hands get paid off much more now.
What do you think? Time for 100NL? That was one of my original goals to be legit rolled for 100NL. Im just blown away how fast I have done it with good bankroll management and solid Tagg play.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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good to hear you ran good! give it a shot man. what's stopping you? just do it and see how it goes.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Blinky
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: nutpeddlers anonymous
Posts: 459
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Impressive.
I am still playing 50NL after more hands than you, so take my advice FWIW. Give 100 NL a shot, but don't be afraid to move back down if B requires when (not if - WHEN) you hit a downswing.
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i would play at least 10k hands before moving up.
You could use a little bankroll cushion in case you run bad to start
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apunisher
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 398
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I would recommend having aroudn 2500 before u give it a shot. Before i was ready to make the jump to 100NL, i was crushing the party 50NL game, so i don't think u will have much of a problem getting the additional $$ to pad ur bankroll. It was a little tough for me adjusting to the play at 100NL when i first switched, so i was really up and down for the first week or so. I did well when i ran well, but i dropped a bunch of buyins when my hands didn't improve alot postflop. Once you take time to adjust tho, i think u will be fine.
One difference i did find that seemed pretty constant was that players will be more likely to float on you and not believe ur cbets. Of course, this is entirely player dependent, but i thought that there were more of these types of players who would try to steal pots whenever u show weakness, (i.e. by checking turn after cbetting).
Im doing well now tho at 100NL, albeit i play 6max and not FR (br at around $4200).
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MiJ
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 208
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good to hear your doing good ...im kind of at the same crossroads that your in ...im rolled for 200NL after running hot at 100nl for 10k hands but my last 5k have been breakeven...right now im at 25 buyins for 200nl...i'll probably stay at 100nl for another 10-15k hands and build a bigger roll for 200nl
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i would play at least 10k hands before moving up.
You could use a little bankroll cushion in case you run bad to start
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I agree with this. Nothing will crush your bankroll and confidence faster than moving up and losing a couple buyins. You may be running hot right now over a short span at 50NL. You don't want to realize that at one level higher. Congrats and good luck.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Personally, I dont think you should move up, but Im kind of confused about your graph and what you said. In the graph it looks like you made a little more than $300 in 3k hands which at $50nl isnt bad at all, but in your OP you said you made $700. Also, I really dont like including bonus money in my BR, i think it gives players a sense that they can move up faster than they really should. Adding bonus money to your BR IMO is basically just adding more of your own money to your account. Id simply feel more comfortable knowing Im rolled for the current stakes Im at solely because of poker play.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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also, once you get past 100nl, start making your Xbuyins to move up a lot higher than 20.
I moved up to 400nl when I had like 12k (30 buyins), and I still felt shaky because the variance at higher stakes can be fierce.
I don't plan on moving to 1knl until I have 50k in my br. Having a shitload of money behind (in terms of buyins) allows you to be a better player and take smaller edges when they appear.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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I think you should play some more hands - I like your blog and i'm glad you had a great upswing - It seems like losing a couple buy ins really gets you down though, so if I were you I would stay at 50NL until your crushing it (for like 15k+ hands or so) - Your comfortable there, stay there, for now - Good job - Keep your confidence up...
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this space intentionally left blank
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
also, once you get past 100nl, start making your Xbuyins to move up a lot higher than 20.
I moved up to 400nl when I had like 12k (30 buyins), and I still felt shaky because the variance at higher stakes can be fierce.
I don't plan on moving to 1knl until I have 50k in my br. Having a shitload of money behind (in terms of buyins) allows you to be a better player and take smaller edges when they appear.
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I agree with this, but just tweaked it a little bit for the mid stakes games. For $400nl Ill start taking shots when I see the games get good at the "regular" BR requirements for it of 20 buyins, or $8k, but to be comfortable there and consider it my main game Id like atleast $10k.
For $600nl probably $20-25k
And as you said, $50k for $1knl and $100k at $2knl
Now, I dont know how high in the ranks I expect to go, but I think its possible for anybody to be successful at the mid stakes if they dedicate themselves to it. The higher stakes [$1knl+] is where the learning curve starts to get extra steep. Even if I did get to $1knl and built a 100k roll for 2knl, I dont even know if Id play it. Look at the lineups at the part 10/20 games, they are dominated by players miles ahead of the rest.
Anyways though, kinda rambled a bit there, but yea, as the games get more aggressive and have more solid players, a bigger BR is essential.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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20 buyins is way to low for me considering I multitable and that poker is my primary living.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Personally, I dont think you should move up, but Im kind of confused about your graph and what you said. In the graph it looks like you made a little more than $300 in 3k hands which at $50nl isnt bad at all, but in your OP you said you made $700. Also, I really dont like including bonus money in my BR, i think it gives players a sense that they can move up faster than they really should. Adding bonus money to your BR IMO is basically just adding more of your own money to your account. Id simply feel more comfortable knowing Im rolled for the current stakes Im at solely because of poker play.
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Nice catch. I didnt move up to 50NL until I was near 1200$, and a bunch of big bonuses hit/cleared in the last week. So its an artificial bump. I havent paid my dues and made a full 20 buyins (closer to 8 or 9).
So do you recommend cashing out the bonus instead of adding it to your bankroll? Or are you saying keep it in the broll as a cushion, but dont move up until ive made 20 buyins?
I am going to wait until 2500$/10k hands (both requirements must be filled) before moving up. It seems the response is overwhelmingly to stay at 50NL. I was feeling the same way but people get chastised for not moving up when they are rolled. Also, it seems the 20 buy-in rule isnt all that set in stone.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ
I think you should play some more hands - I like your blog and i'm glad you had a great upswing - It seems like losing a couple buy ins really gets you down though, so if I were you I would stay at 50NL until your crushing it (for like 15k+ hands or so) - Your comfortable there, stay there, for now - Good job - Keep your confidence up...
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Wow, thanks. Your response is very catered to my personal situation. I appreciate the input, and you are right about getting down after bad sessions. I'd like to think I'm running hot because I have made some changes to my game. ie 20/10 rather than 25/8. And turning off the tv/making sure my dog & wife are taken care of before I start my sessions, playing shorter sessions as well. They have really helped my concentration & reads and I do feel like I am playing better poker. I also spend a lot of time after sessions analyzing my play/reading HHs. But there is no doubt I am running hot, and impossible to sustain.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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nice job either way. i think you should stay at 50NL until you atleast get 10k hands logged, but i wouldnt be afraid to put $100 on the 100nl table every once in a while and see how your game holds up there.
pretty impressive run, nonetheless
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
20 buyins is way to low for me considering I multitable and that poker is my primary living.
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I 7-8 table. What are the move-up broll #'s for 25/50/100/200 that you would recommend?
An interesting observation I just noted last night on pokersitescout.com was that full ring games peak at 100NL. The population of players at 50NL/200NL is slightly less than the # of players at 100NL. Then i drops steeply as you move past to 400+. 25NL its own animal, it has near 100NL population #s. I was thinking that may be why people have a rough time at 200NL+, because the population is not only much tougher, but much smaller. That is the reason I have made my goal to get to 100NL ASAP, and stay there with a stable win rate.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerryToma
Nice catch. I didnt move up to 50NL until I was near 1200$, and a bunch of big bonuses hit/cleared in the last week. So its an artificial bump. I havent paid my dues and made a full 20 buyins (closer to 8 or 9).
So do you recommend cashing out the bonus instead of adding it to your bankroll? Or are you saying keep it in the broll as a cushion, but dont move up until ive made 20 buyins?
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I keep a "separate" bonus br that I use for casino whoring and depositing to
different poker rooms for reloads, all the money is in my neteller account, I just keep track of it in an excel spreadsheet.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerryToma
I am going to wait until 2500$/10k hands (both requirements must be filled) before moving up. It seems the response is overwhelmingly to stay at 50NL. I was feeling the same way but people get chastised for not moving up when they are rolled. Also, it seems the 20 buy-in rule isnt all that set in stone.
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I personally would just figure out how much of my br is from bonuses and then move up when my poker br is $2k, regardless of the number of hands youve played.
And no, the 20 buyin rule isnt set in stone, its just a general guideline. If you are comfortable with the amount of money at stake and your ability, then by all means take a shot at $100nl, but be prepared to drop back down if it doesnt go so well.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
20 buyins is way to low for me considering I multitable and that poker is my primary living.
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If you are living off your poker earnings, then yes, you would want more than 20 buyins; however, I dont think multitabling should make you need more buyins unless you are playing more than 12 tables
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerryToma
25NL its own animal, it has near 100NL population #s.
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I am pretty sure 25NL has way more players than at 100NL. Just look at the amount of tables.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerryToma
25NL its own animal, it has near 100NL population #s.
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I am pretty sure 25NL has way more players than at 100NL. Just look at the amount of tables. |
Yea, according to PokerSiteScout.com $100nl has more players than $50nl [may have to do with the monster promo], but 25nl has more than both
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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You are right bill, my bad. For full ring, 25NL is the max, then there is a second peak at 100NL, then games go down exponentially from there. Heres my crude graph:
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Miffed22001
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08-27-2006, 11:36 PM
Post subject: Re: Passed through 50NL in 5 days, time for 100NL?
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#21 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerryToma
Hey everyone,
If you've been following my progress on my blog, you can see that I started from around a bankroll of 500$ on 8/9/06. I graduated to 50NL on 8/22/06. Now, 5 days later my bankroll is above 2100$ (due to ~700$ of really hot-weekend play and 300$ in bonuses).
I have graduated to 100nl in ~3k hands!? This seems a bit too fast for me. Do you all recommend I move up? The play seemed even worse at 50nl, b/c I played mostly on party network compared to most of my 25nl play on ongame.
Also, I tweaked my game as I now run constistently VPIP/PFR in 20/10 rather than 25/8. My big hands get paid off much more now.
What do you think? Time for 100NL? That was one of my original goals to be legit rolled for 100NL. Im just blown away how fast I have done it with good bankroll management and solid Tagg play. |
i didnt read anyone elses answer because the answer is very simple.
If you have the br and have been beating he game for at the minimum 15k hands then move up. period.
I use 15k because its used in the lhe guide as a number to consider.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerryToma
You are right bill, my bad. For full ring, 25NL is the max, then there is a second peak at 100NL, then games go down exponentially from there. Heres my crude graph:
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Geez, these stats programs just aren't what they used to be...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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That little peak at $InfinityNL intrigues me. Any FTR regulars play there?
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
That little peak at $InfinityNL intrigues me. Any FTR regulars play there?
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thats the promised land 
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerryToma
Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
That little peak at $InfinityNL intrigues me. Any FTR regulars play there?
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thats the promised land |
LOL that's awesome.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
That little peak at $InfinityNL intrigues me. Any FTR regulars play there?
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ilikeaces short stacks there sometimes
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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typical Ilikeaces86 hand at stakes 'infinity'
1. get dealt AA
2. ??????
3. Profit (twice your bankroll and more)
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Don't move up until you have at least 25 or 30 buy-ins for 100NL. Increase that to at least 30 or 35 when you get to 200NL. This way you'll play better, by taking smaller edges. Anyone can win a bunch of buy-ins after a couple of sessions. This does not mean however that they are killing it. Take your time, this is not an overnight process.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
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